18

!dev

Have any of you heard that Melinda gates does not want to invest in "White guys with hoodies?"

That mogul said that she won't invest in white startups, because "she wants to invest in venture firms that focus on women and minorities — while deriding the venture capital (VC) industry for its lack of diversity." Are you actually pissing me here? I thought that she was a businesswoman! I am pretty sure that, business doesn't work like that. Shouldn't you invest in startups that have good ideas? Ideas that will change a technology, or introduce some new amazing invention, or at least give some kind of profit?

I think that this is going too far. I am afraid that, by the time I enter and graduate college, that most companies will be thinking like that. This is honestly scary. So, what she's telling me, is that if there's a team of white men, who have a great idea, but there's also a team of colored women who have a worse idea, that she will invest in them?! Like what the actual hell? This is bloody racism!

If companies start hiring and promoting people, based on their gender or skin color, doesn't that make them sexist and/or racist? Why do they argue that you "cannot be sexist or racist against white people/men." I am afraid that, if America keeps going in this direction, white men will turn into what black men experienced in the 1960s.

the article: goo.gl/vhv36K

Comments
  • 4
    Will draft a reply later
  • 1
    I say let em
    A startup is as good as the idea and the people who implement it
    If a {Insert anything from #000000 to #ffffff} got money for it based on their colour and have no solid idea/talents, it won't be a success, be it for itself or the investors.
    In the long run, it's bound to fail.
    //coming from a brown guy
  • 2
    @oudalally It is truly racist to assume that one race just has more better ideas than an another race. As you said, giving better education is the solution, and I do agree. You should be given an education on no matter who you are, it should be a human right.

    I also believe that everyone should be hired on merit, not anything else. I mean, isn't it logical to hire the most qualified person and to promote the most qualified people to the top? Just because a white man does his job very well and he gets promoted, does not mean that the boss is racist.
  • 1
    @azuredivay I just believe that this is the wrong way of doing things. This is immoral. This is racist.
  • 3
    Oh dear. Not sure where to start on this.

    If you are a team of white men then you have not structured your business in a way that benefits humanity or the product. You have all the privileges that being a white male entails. Your startup will compete for funding with other white male startups, your voice will be heard and ultimately be funded by a white male VC.

    If you are a group of black women you have almost no privileges, you struggle to get your ideas heard. It is assumed that your product and prospect is inferior. Where are the white hoodied wizz kids? How can you expect anyone to invest in a tech startup that does not fit the stereotype? You are recommended even to get a while male on your team (even an incompetent one) in order for your prospect to appear less of a 'risk' to white male vc's.

    So if you are a group of white men looking to take funding from worthy minorities you will first have to diversify your team in both race and gender. I see no negatives of this.
  • 3
    @DeadInside "If you are a team of white men then you have not structured your business in a way that benefits humanity or the product."

    What do you mean by that? So, you're telling me that white people cannot "benefit humanity or the product?" What about thousands of inventions before? If you gave the right education to the people of color, I am pretty sure they would also have made those inventions.
  • 1
    @ribchinski I think you've taken the weakest point of my arguement and are using it to defend you whole point, but okay. Imagine you have an awesome product but you're a team of white guys. Could your product not be any better had you had the insights of women, who have a very different life experience and maybe different motivations? What about if you had some non white people? Perhaps they too would have ideas and experience that improve your product and your company's ethos. Imagine that this is the case, your company is a success and you have a diverse workforce. Win win all round. Alternatively, your product can be ace and you bunch of white guys get rich. No-one underprivileged gets a job and the divide between the white male privelidged and the rest gets bigger. Humanity looses.
  • 2
    @Frederick You need evidence of white male privilege? Seriously?
  • 2
    @ribchinski yep it is racist.

    @DeadInside Let's say you are a group of friends who love coding and decided to make a company n happen to be {insert colour} coz you live in a {insert colour} neighbourhood.
    Assuming the company focuses on optimization of servers, the employees should be expected to have experience with server optimizations for the most part, ethos or experiences of any gender/race/colour don't play a role in this.

    As for your "bunch of white guys getting rich" statement, I'm sure they aren't hoarding the piles of cash like Scrooch McDuck, and like any other normal society they spend the money to buy a taco from a Hispanic place delivered by a Black woman. I can add more varieties of people but you get the idea.
    Money moves around and it doesn't see colour, as long as the spender doesn't either.

    Even stating that "humanity looses" coz a group of people of a specific race get economic benefits is preposterous.
  • 0
    @azuredivay OMFG! You think buying a taco from a minority raced seller is racial equality! Let them keep the change as you burn off in your Tesla!
  • 3
    @azuredivay if you're a group of white male friends there is absolutely nothing stopping you from succeeding. Maybe you won't get funding from Melinda Gates but there are thousands of other vc's that will hear your pitch. If youre a minority group there pretty much ONLY Melinda Gates who will hear your pitch.
  • 0
    @DeadInside My point was to illustrate a slice of how economy works, it includes people of all talents who happen to be people of all races/genders/demographics.
    You think buying a tesla has no benefits for humanity or minorities?
    The people who work in the rubber industry for its tyres, people who deliver them, people who assemble them, people in purchase, instruments used by purchase/delivery/stocks/warehouse, you think all these little moving parts see race?
    Even buying a tesla by a spoilt brat does more good to humanity than forcing diversity down someone's throat without giving talent a chance.

    So only Melinda gates will hear my pitch? You sure you know how investors work? You sure you know people want to see returns on their cash, not the colour of the person handling it?
  • 3
    @azuredivay who's not giving talent a chance? I don't get how you are struggling with this concept: White male group = easiest path to success. Black female group of same ability = much harder path to success. Melinda Gates is simply choosing to bias her investments towards a group that would struggle to get it elsewhere. Good for her.
  • 1
    @DeadInside I come from a second world country... mate, white privilege is not a thing...
  • 2
    @Frederick hey mate, as a person who comes from a second world country, who moved to America, I’ve never felt like anyone has been giving me an “easier time,” because I’m white. If there’s white privilege, then why a lot of Asian students are at the top of my school?

    This guy really needs to chill!
  • 2
    Making judgment based on things people cannot control, eg color, ethnicity, gender, is racist. Does not matter by whom, does not matter if positive or negative. End of story. Everything else is an excuse.
  • 0
    What a mess, can anyone point me to the startup that is referenced? I will return when I have all the info...
  • 5
    Sounds racist to me.

    Judge on merit, not race/etc.
    Quality is what matters, not who produces it.

    "Omg but we're trying to help!" ... by bringing back racism but with a different target this time? Fuck off. Racism is still racism.
  • 0
    Ok, found the original. It's not as bad as it's being framed.
  • 0
    Why should any company strive for minorities to be the majority of their workforce? I'm stretching here, but basically if Hispanics make up 5% of America, then your company shouldn't need more than 5% Hispanics to be diverse. Etc.

    I sure hope that doesn't offend anyone, it's just my current thought.
  • 0
    @coderme
    I'm not trying to say that you're right or wrong. But just wanted to point out:

    - USA does not have only 5% Hispanics. Please use the most recent Census when making these statements. Or more easily, the Wikipedia article based on the census from 2010.

    I'm sorry, I don't want to sound condescending. I know you were just trying to get a point across.
  • 0
    @DeadInside are you taking the piss?
  • 3
    Just an FYI: use http://archive.is/ for news articles from places you do not want to support so they don't get clicks or ad revenue. This place looks fine, but just in the future, since it seems like I'm seeing a lot more political stuff around here recently. :)
  • 3
    Also, this is one of the more retarded things I've read today, and that's saying something.
  • 1
    True equality does not look at gender or race.

    Giving to someone base on gender/race is as sexist/racist as negating baaed of gender/race.

    I am with you.
    This shit is going to get really crazy for white males.
  • 1
    @Frederick I was sleeping. I'm not sure what statements you're asking me to prove? I am seriously gobsmacked at the belief here that the privileged should be entitled to the same help as the underprivileged. Should millionaires be entitled to claim housing benefit? No. Why not? Because they don't need it and it takes resources away from those that do. This is the crux of my arguement. There is a massive bias towards white male tech. Ideally this racial bias would not exist but Melinda Gates is not capable of removing everybody else's predudices so the next best thing is to redress that balance by giving her money to worthy teams who would not get it otherwise.

    You really don't have to look far to find the statistics of this bias. I'll start you off here: https://forbes.com/sites/...
    Let me know if you need more.
  • 0
    So, now I have to step up for @DeadInside, because basically he has a point, although some things are a bit offending. I'm thinking the same way. The problem why I probably won't dive into a 20 comment discussion here either is, because it is a super complex topic which has its own research path so I won't be able to backup all what follows without giving you curriculum. If you are really interested in this have a look at social studies lectures and videos about equality, gender, race, privilege and especially intersectionality.

    Many of the comments sound like packed with a lot of fear that 'the tides' could turn, or one could loose privileges, but just because someone like Melinda decides to support minorities does not simply turn around the world. Like many of you stated, it doesn't work like that.

    Also there is this notion of, hey I'm a white guy and I don't feel the privilege. Of course not, because that is part of being privileged. In every context there are people being more privileged than others and at least in my opinion it is the duty of those to give support to the others.

    Colored people can't be racist against white people. Not in countries like Germany or France, where white people are the majority. This is because racism is about the idea of a majority suppressing a minority. In a country where it is the other way around this could be valid.

    And about the quality of ideas. Melinda as stated is a business women. She would not simply give funding to an idea, if she is thinking the idea wouldn't work. It's just another focus in order to support minorities, which supports diversity and I would say at the current state is something good since unfortunately, against what many of you stated, we don't live in a world of social equality yet. Therefore it does not work to state that one should only consider ideas and quality, since behind all of this are humans of all kinds of different ethnicity, race, gender and origin.
  • -1
    @ribchinski White privilege is DEFINITELY a thing! Categorically, inarguably, unfortunately. Please read this article asking why why people deny the existence of white privilege (https://theundefeated.com/features/...)
  • 0
    @Alice GDPR is a real dick. I can't really paste the article here but search for 'racial bias in tech'. There's hundreds of articles (I have not read them all)
  • 0
    I don't think many people in this thread are actually considering what it means to be a founder. Yeah sure we'd all love to have diverse teams, but that's a fantasy that can't always happen, for three reasons that are completely separate from any privilege or other PC concept; and the recent rise of VC firms only investing in diverse startups is making it extremely difficult for many ideas to get off the ground and extremely easy for bogus ideas made by diverse teams to get pretty far (e.g. scam ICOs...). I don't have space to discuss everything in this comment so I'll split it up.
  • 0
    1 - Equity. Most incubators and accelerators look for a pair founder team: 2 people at best. I'll just say this explicitly because I know someone will miss this and take it the wrong way: there are more than 2 (races*genders) so it is essentially impossible to have a fully diverse team. It's also mathematically rare based on the population and sample size to select a sample that has the diversity we're seeking out. If a team of say 2 white male founders had a brilliant idea, dismissing it based on their gender or race is discrimination by definition. Yes it would be nice to have the opinion of a minority or female, and I'm sure the founders can go poll some (anyone in startups will tell you they're always polling, data is the biggest win). But having them on the team? 2 founders means 50/50 equity; adding more decreases the ownership each person has. Plus why is a new founder worth the same as the others when the others have already done so much work? Cap table is a numbers game!
  • 0
    2 - Vision. Realistically despite what we may want to believe, white males do not seek out specifically other white males to found startups. Founders aren't chosen by diversity (regardless of whether it would be nice, it just doesn't make sense). Some founders end up together because they've been long term friends or coworkers that share a vision. Others were working on the same project that spun off into the startup. Or other times, one person came up with the idea but needed someone who could do <xyz> to execute it, and the cofounder is someone they knew or were introduced to that could do <xyz>. I honestly don't think it's possible, or at least a huge waste of time and resources, to find someone who fits diversity and also shares the vision, has the necessary skillset and passion for execution. My team right now is all minorities and pretty gender balanced, but I'll be the first to stay that we didn't start that way at all and I wouldn't go back and change it because it _worked_.
  • 0
    3 - Team Building. Many argue that teams that are all white have it easier and are preferred--let me just completely dispel this ridiculous notion. What you're seeing in this rant is something that's been going on for a while. VCs don't like all white male startups in general, if you're raising funding you'll definitely fare better with minorities and all females. It's a reality that is evident, at every level at every place. I've pitched with a full minority team before and gotten outright chastised and turned down on stage by an investor who called us out for not having a woman on our 4-person team (chastised meaning very publicly shamed).

    There are a limited number of people that can be hired for both cost and efficiency reasons, so generally the beat people for the role are picked regardless of diversity. Later on diversity hires become a thing but I won't discuss the morality of that. This "hiring only white males" thing isn't intended bc it doesn't make $. Skill = $.
  • 1
    If people want to invest in something just based on diversity or some other attribute then who cares? It's their money, the market will decide the outcome of their choice. The market doesn't reward poor choices so if making investments based on diversity doesn't work those businesses will flop, the investors will run out of money, and other investment strategies will succeed. And if your idea is really good some rich investor will come along to fund it eventually.
  • 0
    wasn't Microsoft a 'white startup,' Melinda gates isn't a businesswoman, she's just pissing away her husband's money in order to feel good.
  • 3
    Coming from an African country and being white and male, trust me I'm only tolerated because I bring considerable expertise to the table. Were my skills equal to my colleagues they'd cut me loose in a flash because I'm white and male. This is my reality.
  • 0
    @DeadInside it seems to me that you are advocating that people be different skin colours but all think the same.

    Any product that is going to be successful is going to work regardless of skin colour and be beneficial to everyone. That's what the market calls a 'success,' you don't need to be any particular skin colour or gender to make a product that works well.

    Implying that white males simply don't know enough about the world and therefore teams need to be diverse is actually patronising. Market research makes or brakes a product prior to it going into production and being a success. It's the Market Research stage where you elicit the opinions of potential customers that you get all of the diversity that you need. Nobody makes products just for white people in this day and age, or straight people and only men. Businesses only care that you buy their offerings, that's as egalitarian as it gets...
  • 3
    There is a misconception here that "white male" just refer to the color of your skin and your gender.

    When discussing socio-economics context, what it really means is "coming from a privileged background", which is incidentally highly correlated with being a white male (as to why, look at history, with patriarchism and slavery etc...).

    While being one of those white male, I can tell you the signs of privilege are really obvious, if you take the time to look at them, just a few example:

    - I almost never get controlled by police in the street. It's almost always black/arabs being controlled. Statistics tells it's a widespread issue of skin color affecting how much you are controlled.

    - I'm co-founder with a female (who happens to be the boss). I noticed quite a few times bias against her gender, in subtle or not so subtle ways

    In a perfect world, the initiative wouldn't be needed. But we are not there, and discriminated people need role models and a way to access capital.
  • 0
    I was privileged, I don't deny it. Not anymore though.

    Which is the point. In order to get equality, previously advantaged are going to be disadvantaged.

    Equality on a macroeconomic scale is desirable.

    But... people get hurt along the way.
  • 0
    @w4tsn but the definition of racism is “discriminating based on skin color or ethnicity.” Not discriminating against the minority. In South Africa, black people were the majority, but white people were still racist there, mate!
  • 0
    @Fradow but is it my fault, a white immigrant from Ukraine, that America has white privilege?
  • 2
    @ribchinski can't say it better than Alice.

    You are not at fault. Decades of history with people perpetuating it are.

    Just recognize it exists, and do your best to stop perpetuating it when you have a choice.

    Initiative like the one OP is mad at aim at re-equilibrating the balance. Frankly, there would need to be MUCH MUCH more initiatives like that to make the balance even be neutral, let alone swing the other way.

    People screaming at discrimination for that largely miss the point, looking at details (yeah it does discriminate) instead of the larger view.
  • 0
    @SHA-16384 I’m sorry, mate. It’s just that as an immigrant student, I worry that this might cause troubles in the future.
  • 0
    @Alice I’m sorry, it’s just that I came from a corrupt oligarchy, and the US seems like heaven compared to Ukraine. It’s just when I see clear discrimination, it saddens me. I just want people to have equal rights.
  • 3
    Social justice needs to die a painful death.
  • 0
    @DeadInside Could you give a few examples of white male privilege? I've heard tons and tons of people talk about it, but refuse to give an example
  • 2
    @RAZERZ Google it. You know how it's factually correct that black people are stopped by the police more than white? There's a privilege of being white. You know how you can forego shaving if you like and nobody cares but women are expected to shave their legs else be seen as some kind of monster? That's a (very tame) example of male privilege.

    Our society places expectations on different groups of people. Some of these assumptions are positive, others are very negative. As white men we are taught by family, peers and popular culture that we are the heros; that we should be strong and tough; that we are the best and have a duty to provide for the 'weaker sex'. As a black woman, popular culture teaches you that you are a worker, you're not the hero but are in a support role. You help men to succeed.
    ...
  • 2
    ...
    Obviously it's far more complicated than that but you can see how from birth we are all pigeonholed into set groups. As a white male you're in the group with all the privileges. The closer you are to the 'ideal' white male (the body, the looks, the money, the smarts) the easier life is for you. This is your white male privilege. It's not your fault but we need to recognise it exists and work around it.
  • 0
    @DeadInside mate, most prejudiced black arrests occur in the south, where gang violence is high. I can’t blame those officers for fearing black people there, cause you don’t know if one is a gang member or not.

    The same thing happened to white people during the world wars. You could be detained for the littlest thing, just because you could be a German spy.
  • 0
    @DeadInside no mate, I don't want "opinions" or "social constructs" I mean actuall facts. Take the cop situation. Can you refer me to an actual law/standard operating procedure of a police station which states that white males need to be privileged? The "all cops are bad because a few of them have shown white privilege" is like saying "all feminists are male haters because a few of them are and it's like a social construct and a norm" or "all Muslims are terrorists because a few of them blew themselves up and it's commonly known" like no dude, point me to an actual source that says that for example all Muslims are terrorists and I will be happy to protest with you
  • 0
    @RAZERZ
    It is a well known fact that women's income is lower than a male's income, for the same parameters. In the States at least.

    A simple goolgle search should bring many results.
  • 0
    @sabbonaut
    If that is what your research and data show, that's awesome.
  • 0
    @sabbonaut
    Research -> Googling and other (re)searches

    I wasn't being sarcastic.
  • 0
    @ODXT please, I’ve seen those “age gap” studies. Don’t make me laugh. I agree with @sabbonaut.
  • 0
    @ODXT you’re saying that the US department of labor would lie in their official reports? You must be kidding, right?
  • 0
    @ribchinski
    I don't see how you would know what I was looking at, without me posting it. But see above, I already had a professional discussion with @sabbonaut

    Please keep things civil.
  • 0
    @ODXT alright, I will keep it civil then.
  • 1
    @RAZERZ you clearly don't understand the concept. Privilege isn't given. The cops are not saying "he's white, don't arrest him." Any more thanks they are saying "he's black, let's get him." but they are as a group displaying a racial bias in their decisions. Mostly unknowingly. (http://thenationshealth.aphapublications.org/...)

    What I don't understand is why you don't believe it exists? Do you think the black lives matter or the metoo movement are just people making shit up for a laugh? Why do you suppose there isn't a White Men Matter movement where we march for lower pay and ask the police to shoot us more frequently?
  • 3
    @DeadInside this is all horseshit, and I reject it. Identity politics is dangerous and needs to end.
  • 1
    @DeadInside applying a blanket statement to an entire race based off of racial data that doesn't take into account class, socioeconomic status, or any other factor is textbook racism.

    In the same way not every black person is a rapper and not every indian is in tech support and not every Mexican likes tacos, not every white person is white, well to-do and is privileged.

    I love how we're all about statistics, truth and tolerance until it suits social justice or stands against white people and then the basics of statistical causation, seeking out the whole truth and being tolerant without discrimination is thrown right out the window.

    Let's be rational about this. In the first place this thread is related to entrepreneurship not police brutality; if you seriously think being white is a free ticket for startups you've obviously never been a founder and have no respect for the work put into being one.
  • 1
    @Frederick in response to your first answer to me, when all people are the same to you, why don't you then step up for the ones in our specific society that have the lower ground? Unfortunately the World is not that pure, that we already have equal chances for everyone. So this is not racism but rather creating equal chances, because the chances are not equal due to the fact of social inequality.

    Definition of racism:
    "The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others. "

    Based on that I asume that mirandas actions are not racist, but a step on seeking equality. Social equality does not simple arise when we only talk about it, as with all things in live we have to actively work on that.

    As to the part of colored people cannot be racist against white people, I referred to the modern definition from social studies, not the traditional dictionary version. You are right though, that under this definition I referred to institutional racism rather than individual racism.

    Recommended article about racism:
    https://thoughtco.com/what-is-racis...
  • 1
    @w4tsn as a libertarian, I find “stepping up for the minority” disturbingly communistic. Mate, this is a competitive world. Stop trying to remove the competition; stop giving medals to everyone.

    Instead of “one upping” them, why don’t you give them a good education and wait for actual good ideas, mate.

    You know right that all white peoples are not the same? Can’t you just fight for meritocracy? Also, this is a majority white country, it is statistically impossible for there to be more minorities employed without making half the country unemployed.
  • 3
    @ribchinski We don't live in a competitive world, but in a competitive society. Don't get me wrong, I like competition to some extend and I believe in it driving innovation. I think there has to be a baseline of certain equal chances, which is not reality right now which is an actual problem of society which is fixable. There is still space for competition starting of at this baseline. I don't believe that there is just a communist or competitive way but several paths in between.

    I don't think that missing education is our only problem. There are more things to be taken into account to enable more people in the society to create and participate in great ideas. We as a society define the rules, so if we decide that competition is the way to go and it works out, great. If we decide that competition is great plus everyone should be given equal chances to participate in this competition, even better, right? Inequality in this context is often not caused by our laws (since equal rights are already in place), but through believes and behavior implemented in society, which is not always covered by the law in any way.

    I don't like meritocracy in the sense that, on its own, it does nothing to sustain human rights, quality of life or social equality. I even consider it as dangerous since it may lead to an elite society of arrogance. Left aside that I also question our ability to truly handle a positive meritocracy, since the task of measuring the merit of each individual to its full extend is an incredibly hard problem.
  • 1
    @w4tsn I’m just against anything that suppresses ideas and competition. I believe that everyone should be heard, and never silenced.

    Capitalism isn’t perfect. Far from it. It does need a lot of fixing, which will be done. Like eliminating monopolies.

    I agree with you that everyone should get a chance, but I just don’t like how “minorities” are generalized. I myself, am a minority. Not a racial one, but a cultural. I give money to those in need, not to those who just demand it.

    If Melinda wants to invest only in minorities, so be it. It’s her right. It doesn’t mean she can’t be criticized, but she can do whatever she wants

    I agree with you on some points but not all. But hey, I still listened to you. Ain’t that the beauty of free speech?
  • 1
    @ribchinski
    I think what you said captures the whole point about the Melinda thing.

    She is giving money to certain people. Before there was no money and now there is. Good for the people who can benefit from that.

    If you can't benifit from it now, then you certainly couldn't when it did not exist.
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