A bit of an ethical dilemma here.

If I write the software I want to, which is super efficient, it helps rich people, but not poor people..

So, what do I do ?

Not write it ?

Or create a crippled version so it helps poor people and not rich people..

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    Do that software. Make money. Create a software that helps poorer people. Make a bit more money.
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    That depends mostly on your contract with the rich.

    If the rich don't have exclusive rights, then create a modified version that the poor could make use of.
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    Sell it to poor people. Have them pay with ass. 😂
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    I'm not being paid to do it, its my own creation. :-)

    As such I want to make it freeware, so as to help the poor.

    But if I do that, it will harm them more than help them..

    Maybe a paid for version and a freeware crippled version, then at least the poor can be helped by the less efficient software.
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    Well, people are always going on about alternative currencies..
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    I'm not sure I have any ideas for what else software wise might help poor people after this !

    If I create it, it will really fuck up their lives.

    I feel like Julius Robert Oppenheimer..
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    @Nanos vag-coins 👌
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    Interestingly I was just chatting to someone who runs a similar system, who said if I created my own, they would throw me out as a customer of theirs !

    At first they was just talking about throwing customers out who mentioned a competitors site.

    So I asked, if I don't mention one, then I'm safe right ?

    No !

    So if I create my own software, I could be really in the shit if it doesn't work !

    Bit like:

    Renting an affordable house, and being thrown out into the street because you wrote a rental app to make renting prices more expensive..

    Doesn't really help if you then can't afford to rent..

    Unless enough folk donate money for you writing an app that helps the rich folk. :-)
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    Will you gain more wealth as a result? Write it. There is no dilemma in looking out for yourself.
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    I might gain more wealth, it isn't a given, as I'll be relying on donations only for the freeware solution.

    So its possible I might not get anything for it, and then it would just make my own situation worse !

    Bit like when I wanted a job and chatted to a company about how it could automate that very job I wanted to apply for..

    Since they started automating, those job positions have declined and I never got the job !

    Whilst it improved their business, the end result was job losses..

    So perhaps in hindsight that wasn't a very good idea..
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    I want to help others, not just myself.

    Specifically poor folk.

    Rich folk don't need help. :-)

    Though, improving efficiency in what rich folk do, would lead to things like lower costs for mobile phones, so the poor could then get one..

    But that only sort of helps the middle class poor, those with some disposable income, rather than the dirt poor, those with practically nothing but enough money to eat if they are lucky.

    I want to help those at the bottom, so they may improve their lives and not be at the bottom.

    In absolute terms that is, not relative ones !
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    "If I create it, it will really fuck up their lives." I think you already know the answer to your dilemma - the fact that you're even posting this question suggests you're struggling with this, because you're a good person. Do what will make you most happy.
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    > Do what will make you most happy.

    That isn't me though.

    I'm not here just for myself.

    I had that choice a while ago, leave this world and stop suffering, or put up with the suffering for some purpose.

    My purpose is to make others lives better, and hopefully my own too.

    But not just my life, and screw everyone else.

    That would make me as bad as the people screwing me over to make their life better and not caring about anyone else in the process.

    I know that is how life works..

    Eg. We all screw each other and try to get away with it..

    My direction is to figure out ways to help those that others aren't.

    This at times leads to difficult choices, trying to figure out what would lead to the greater good.

    Like, whoever invented horse races and gambling, was that a good thing, or a bad thing because it created penniless gamblers..

    Yet it also allowed some poor to become rich !
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    @Alice That's what Miles Dyson did :p
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    Make both.
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    That's what I'm learning towards.

    A friend of mine can run the paid for one and have all the legal hassles of dealing with that. :-)

    Be nice to get some money from it that way..

    Then comes the difficult question of, which features to make paid for, and to design it in such a way that you can't really cheat the system by getting hold of a free copy of the paid for software..

    So, you'd have to provide services which are paid for.

    Which kinda defeat one of the mayor design aspects of the software in the first place, that it can run without any services..

    Because if you are dirt poor, you can't afford to pay for things !

    So I'm not sure how that would work:

    "Pay $3,000 a year for this wonderful software and services.."

    Or pay nothing for the free software without services that someone else can provide for free..

    But if you use it, it will fuck up your life !

    Well, some peoples lives..

    Some will be better for it.

    But many will not.
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    My nearest competitor so to speak charges $400 a year. (Though I'm lucky as I get to use their software/services for free since I've got a free account, thanks to another customer of theirs!)

    But if I'm going to charge for mine, I might well charge far more than that, to keep the poor folk out..

    But then $400 is quite a lot to the real poor..

    About 2 months wages, so maybe $400 a year is fine to keep the poor out then !
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    Which brings up another subject area of should we develop AI..

    I mean, I'm sure I'd love something to mow the grass for me and do the weeding, but then it might get ideas above its station and start a revolution, kicking me out of my own house and putting me in a cage so I can mow the lawn instead for it !
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    How would ineffecient code benefit the poor? Or anyone for that matter?
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    If it's a good idea and you don't do it, someone else will.

    If you're not comfortable with it, wait for someone else to do it.
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    I've been waiting 30 years, no one else has done it yet !

    I can quite imagine another 30 years, no change.

    The idea is already out there in the world, I'm just noticing it and wanting to make it happen.

    There is also the issue that if I don't do it the best way possible, in the sense of best for poor folk, someone else might do it with no regard for them..
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    Efficient code helps evolution of the species.

    Which is great for the top 20%.

    Not great for the bottom 20%..

    Without efficient code, humans have to resort to other ways to do things, which tend to benefit the 20% at the bottom more than the 20% at the top.
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    @Nanos Unless you are in genetic engineering, no code you write is going to affect the evolution of our species mate.
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    It is if it effects whose going to end up having sex with who.
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    Dating app?
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    @Nanos well if your software means less sex for the poor, then it would benefit everyone.
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    Something that has a side effect of dating applications.

    It wasn't its original design. :-)
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    I'm not sure the poor see it that way..
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    That does bring up an interesting area of study though.

    Why is the poor having sex less a good thing ?

    I believe the answer is more complicated than it first appears. :-)
  • 1
    @Nanos because it's the poor who have the most children, and the world has by far too many humans already. And not enough resources to make everyone "rich" (i.e. allow Western living standard).
  • 0

    Agree the world has too many humans already.

    But It's the stupid that have the most children..
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    Which brings up a question of, how do we have less children ?

    But at the same time, not run out of smart people ?
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    Just because you help someone, nobody should blame you for not helping the others.

    But helping someone in taking advantage of others, is not cool.

    Don't look at the end user's type. Look at the usage and the consequences.
  • 0

    > helping someone in taking advantage of

    > others, is not cool.

    But isn't that the entire essence of capitalism..
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    I'm still pondering this.

    Even a crippled version is going to be difficult to cripple enough.

    I would still worry that even the crippled version could still have negative effects on the poor.

    It would only take someone to write an addon app to uncripple a few things to tip the balance.

    That is like saying, nuclear power for electricity generation is fine and dandy, but then someone comes along and figures out a way to make bombs from it..

    Doesn't you bare some responsibility if you are involved in the development of the electricity generation side of things ?
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    @Nanos what is that thing that can (by your words) harm people?
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    If I said what it was, someone would probably run with the idea and it would be my fault for letting the cat out of the bag more than it already is.

    At the moment it lingers in a dark corner of the internet that hardly anyone ever visits..
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    Pondering about it, I think there is a way to provide a crippled version to the poor, with the un-crippled version available on a subscription basis to the rich.

    In theory, someone could code an addon to turn the crippled version into an un-crippled one, but it would take some effort.

    And maybe no one will think of it..

    Or perhaps they will, and then realise it might not be such a good idea after all, and sit on it.

    At least if I do a crippled version instead of waiting for someone else to come along and do a non-crippled version, I might be able to stall evolution so to speak for long enough for some positive change to happen in the world, such that it could withstand a more efficient version..

    I have seen some countries that have been able to get a handle on this specific issue, so at the very least, if just one more country could be made better, I guess all the hard work would be worth it.
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    I guess its a bit like, a very high speed runaway train, you could put the brake on but it won't stop it, but it could slow it down enough that a few people could jump off and live..

    You just hope no one has the bright idea of fixing the brake so it stops suddenly and everyone slams into the the front of the carriages and dies..

    Reminds me of an automated train that everyone did die on, because someone got on the track and the train didn't have sensors to spot this, so just kept going..

    Even though everyone on the train saw it, they was powerless to stop the train in time.

    You wouldn't want to be the person who designed that training driving software..
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    I am extremely curious as to what this software is.. 🤔
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    In time when I return with a new name, you will get to use it.

    Well, another name, no doubt I'll still use this one from time to time for things that I can't talk about in public so much.

    A new public facing name, where I will have to do an Elon and watch what I say..

    I'll just check with my lawyer that I'm allowed to say that..
  • 2
    @Nanos Uh.. Alrighty then. Haha.
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    After more analysis, it appears that even the crippled version would effect some folk negatively. :-(

    I reckon the bottom 20% will be effected by it.

    The non-crippled I reckon will effect the bottom 40%.


    Currently I'm in the bottom 20%..

    If I wait until I'm just above that, and then release the crippled version, I'll be fine..

    But other folk won't be.

    Then when I get to above 40%, I could do the non-crippled version.

    Fine for me..

    Sucks for others. :-(

    The app already exists in a long forgotten corner of the internet, badly written, and not working well.

    But if I do a well written version that does work well, I think it will be popular.

    So where does that leave me ethically, the big bad wolf ?

    A cog in the machine..

    Guilty ?

    The same as any other human who looks out for themselves..

    It is hard being selfish when you concern yourself with others wellbeing.
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    @Nanos I don't believe that mere app could influence as much without a big Corp behind
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    Maybe, but perhaps it will become a big corp in itself because of this single app.

    Who knows what the magic ingredients are to make a product go viral and suddenly everyone wants it.

    If it stays a niche product, then I guess it isn't going to hurt many people.

    But then, it won't reach its full potential.
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    I think you're being very optimistic that a single app could change the world on the scale you suggest.
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    And pessimistic..
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    More thinking and logic applied, I reckon I have a working solution, though it does require other folk to do their bit..

    Simple answer, charity.

    Those of us in the top 60%, just give away 1% to 2% of our disposable income (That's money left after all of our necessary expenses, such as housing, food, fuel/etc.) to those in the bottom 40%.

    I reckon my software will help the most those top 60%, and those between 20% at the bottom and 40%.

    The ones below 20%, it will help some, but those unable to improve themselves above 20%, we can only help with charity to make their lives more bearable / enjoyable.

    As such, a quick calculation, I reckon just 1% if we all help, and 2% if only half of us do..

    By charity, I mean more giving to individuals, or group efforts, than charities set up to spend most of the money on paying their own staff, and not actually helping the people they say they are..

    Crowd funding is good.
  • 0
    Oh and open source 3D printed sex robots..

    For the 20% to 40% who can't afford a partner, but could afford to build their own..

    Or a bunch of folk could get together to spread the cost of the 3D printer..

    Below 20%, they can ask for a free one via crowd funding.
  • 0
    A model reliant on individuals giving up on their disposable income is a pretty big dependency.
  • 0

    Isn't that in essence what this is:


    > In 2015, over US$34 billion was raised

    > worldwide by crowdfunding.
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    I'm not thinking of it as reliant, or a dependency, only that I alone would not carry all of the moral burden of the software.

    It would be like the person who makes the machines that makes bullets.

    The people who fire the bullets have the most collective responsibility do they not ?
  • 1
    @Nanos I'd say the people who ask them to fire them.
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    Looking at the world today, it appears that the bottom 40% are already being screwed such that my software wouldn't make things any worse.

    10 years ago, it would have made things worse for them.

    I didn't realise things had got so bad in the world recently. :-(
  • 1
    @Nanos The bottom 40% of what? And how are they being screwed?
  • 0

    Bottom of society, men in general.

    Screwed due to lack of partner. (aka singledom.)

    There are connecting issues such as employment, education, transportation.
  • 0
    @Nanos I wouldn't call it screwed, that makes it sound like they are cheated out of something. You aren't entitled to a partner. You aren't entitled to anything.
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    No I think screwed is the correct term:




    in a difficult or hopeless situation; ruined or broken.

  • 0

    > You aren't entitled to a partner. You aren't

    > entitled to anything.

    FX [ Nods in agreement though. ]
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    > makes it sound like they are cheated out

    > of something.

    That sounds like a political agenda statement at first glance.

    If not, then to answer the question, males are in competition with other males for females.

    As many societies are changing, this is increasing competition rates and making it harder for lower quality males to compete.

    What other terms might you suggest to use ?
  • 1
    @Nanos In a difficult situation, fair enough, I'll agree with that.
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