9
tombjarne
14d

DISCUSS: You don't need a Master's degree to start working at a company and do a good job.

Comments
  • 4
    True + False.
  • 6
    Master's absolutely not unless it is a research company specializing in that area

    Bachelor's degree most probably yes
  • 9
    Objective facts:

    A master's increases your chances of landing the job you want.

    It's harder to go back and do master's after not having studied for a few years.

    You don't need a master's.

    Should you go for a master's degree? It's a big fat "it depends".

    I digress, but I find that when we're hiring people without any working experience, their degrees show that they are at the very least capable of delivering work on time.
  • 3
    You don't need any diploma, but it'll definitely help with your salary (especially early on).
  • 2
    This discussion has happened here multiple times in some form or another. Can you do me a favour, @tombjarne, and look up the arguments that have been made so far?
    I'll give you my position in a nutshell: I point to other professions. Ours is too unprofessional in comparison, we need similar mechanisms to weed out bad devs. Requiring a degree as entry barrier is probably a good start.
  • 2
    I don't have any education when it comes to programming. Still I'm project lead at work 🤷🏻‍♂️
  • 11
    @VaderNT The dev domain with the lowest entry barrier is web dev. Incidentally, this is also a domain riddled with ridiculous shit:

    - Devs routinely fail already at writing valid HTML.
    - The amount of dev portfolios (!) with botched up heading levels is staggering. These people have never written even one professional document (like a final thesis) in their whole life.
    - Devs make hundreds of requests because they have no idea about networking and think bandwidth can address latency.
    - Megs of JS are downloaded on pages that have hardly any justification to use JS at all.
    - It's normal to transfer 3 MB of shit to display 500 bytes of actual text.
    - Insane crap born out of gross technical misunderstanding (like CSS frameworks - looking at you, Bootstrap) is rampant.
    - WordPress powers over a third of the web. A platform where themes (which are supposed to customise the look) routinely open security holes.
    - Pulling in and deploying code from all over the internet by whomever (NPM).
  • 3
    @Fast-Nop I honestly can say I've never written a thesis before 😅

    But then I never finished school either so, that could be an issue.
  • 1
    @C0D4 But I hope you do see more to heading tags in HTML than "make the level higher to get smaller letters".

    Because that's the shallow level of understanding that's so common even with such dead simple shit. They have no idea why the (default) fontsizes are that way, what that means - it's just shoving around pixels on the screen and not seeing beyond it.
  • 2
    @Fast-Nop I'm just nit picking.

    I totally agree though, the average webDev can create an abomination in the name of "ooh it's pretty", or worse they don't know what they are doing at all, and npm install x,y,z, and anything else they don't need to write themselves.

    But that's usually due to a lack of branching out of WebDev or getting past wordpress and actually building something.
    You can only learn so much stuck in a bubble. Webdev is a serious bubble of bullshit, and sadly the "right" way isn't taught, just how to mush keys until it looks remotely right on the screen.
  • 1
    Nowadays you can even get a job easier without a masters degree, people don't want racists in their team /s
  • 0
    @asgs I’m a dropout and I teach people at our Uni and my boss.

    From my experience, most coworkers with a bachelor or higher usually are picky dickheads.
  • 2
    wonder if google, facebook and all the pc companies are still hiring ppl with master's degrees 🤔
  • 3
    No. There was once a team of rocket scientists that crashed their satellite into mars because they used the wrong units of measurement. What matters is the path you take. Not how you get there or other possible paths
  • 2
    @010001111 my experience is co-workers have always been dickheads no matter what level ofeducation they had
  • 3
    @bashleigh Obviously, self-taught would have been better, given how many amateurs have launched rockets to Mars successfully so far.
  • 0
    You don't. But i recently had to do an extra test while applying for a job to proof a certain level. It's because the company guarantees that all of their employees have it. I made the test well. Now the regular test that everyone has to do is left
  • 0
    nothing to discuss in a true statement.
  • 1
    @Fast-Nop works both ways, verified engineers can't stop blowing up space-x rockets.
  • 0
    @C0D4 That's because it's actually rocket science. I wouldn't let self-taught people design this stuff, and I wouldn't fly in an aircraft designed by them. It doesn't guarantee that educated people won't fuck it up (737-Max...), but amateurs are even less likely to get everything right.

    But the original point was, to stay in that picture, that you don't need to be a studied aircraft engineer if the task at hand is to fold a paper dart.
  • 0
    @Fast-Nop my point was, even those with a degree can make mistakes. And let’s face it, in this industry university isn’t going to be able to teach you everything. You’re going to have to teach yourself; you will be asked to used a different language you’ve never used before, you will be asked to implement a methodology you’ve never heard of before, you will use stackoverflow, you will use google, you will still make mistakes, heck university doesn’t teach client’s final final changes.
    I see university as a for profit industry: They’ve brain washed people into believing that knowledge is taught and paid for but I still respect those that go. I’ve heard so many times, people from university, studying CS have to re-learn everything. And with an industry moving so fast, how do expect universities to keep up? In college I had a “business ready” course to help me get hired where I was taught VB, which was deprecated 5 years before my course 😂😂
  • 0
    Agree but, depends on startup culture in your location

    @M1sf3t oh yes they are a 100% yes

    Also nobody really knows how to make rockets. it’s all luck
  • 1
    @bashleigh that's not exactly what happened. The contractor hired to do some of the calculations gave the results in the wrong units, even though NASA specified clearly the units they wanted, and assumed that the contractor followed their requirements and provided what they claimed to have provided. I happened to have come across this a few hours ago: https://youtube.com/watch/...
  • 3
    @bashleigh Sure, a degree won't make you infallible, but it teaches you basics that self-taught people routinely lack.

    For example, it's pretty easy to see why deep neural networks need a long training time if you take a look at the partial derivation equations, but you have to know the math.

    Or, more in my domain, it's obvious to any EE bachelor why setting your digital outputs to fast flank mode will make your EMI compliance harder, but you need to have a grip on Fourier transforms.

    It's not about learning a specific language or software package - that comes on top.
  • 0
    You don't even need a bachelors degree.

    I have a bachelors in Electronics. I'm a Software Engineer in the leading e-commerce company in India (at par with Amazon)...

    One of my teammate is a mechanical engineer by graduation degree.
  • 1
    @Fast-Nop
    > The dev domain with the lowest entry barrier is web dev. Incidentally, this is also a domain riddled with ridiculous shit

    Ugh, web dev. I usually suppress the knowledge it even exists.

    Not that backend dev would be significantly better most of the time. This should be a standalone rant but... recently two coworkers told me about their ✨awesometastic✨ (not an actual quote) CRUD backend project. One was raving about how they'd use a three-tier architecture, test with Postman and stuff, while the other was having a nerdgasm, both of them believing this was bleeding edge how to do things.

    And their code is still shit, because a three-tier shitpile stays a shitpile. Where's our equivalent of a medical association to have these guys gone? And can we please make a thorough education mandatory?
  • 0
    I got my undegraduate degree 3 years back. Here's my opinion for now and might change in future.

    So far I didn't really use what I learned in college at work so I think same will happen with masters but what it gives you though is network and base to get you the interviews you need and once you landed a job you're in the driver seat. Instead you can put the same effort and money in upskilling or starting something your own or just have fun with it.

    So unless I cannot progress in my career I will not go for Masters
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