Somebody here disagreed with me on Angular developer experience being terrible in the name of "but you should have the specific knowledge to use it". Those knowledge aren't accessible, the doc is hardly browsable or searchable.

It's not a good point. If I design or implement an interface, I design for everybody, not only the few who have the engineering mindset. In fact, design quality is measured by how well divergent people handle it.

Overall, the quality isn't there.

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    @M1sf3t yeah so?

    For some framework I rarely even need to google shit or find hacks on SO or github issues. For some, it's every 10 minutes.

    And for the third one, well I did but we're having this conversation for ever.
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    If you're going to call me out, fine:

    You keep asserting UI design methodology to language and framework design. They're incompatible. One of these things is intimately concerned with the curry-howard isomorphism, the other is not. You would probably find BNF, Squiggol, Scala, Haskell and Clojure obtuse as well.

    You're also twisting my words. My message was very clear:

    There's a paradigm you don't understand at play, and until you go through the fundamentals and learn it, you'll keep hitting these walls.

    Tl;Dr There's preqreqs to some courses. You wouldn't go into a course on diff calc with a background of elementary mathematics and expect to be successful. Going into angular without a concrete understanding of type systems, a basic exposure to functional programming (at least RFP), composition and an understanding of software patterns is the same thing. That's assumed prerequisite knowledge.
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    @M1sf3t hum I am not looking for support nor am I not grateful for engaging in a discussion. I just can't find the specific discussion at the moment and noted my ideas in a thread, that's all.
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    @SortOfTested you keep pointing out to theoretical knowledge as they were the sole factor.

    You're not entirely wrong, it's not my background, but this is also true for other tools and languages and yet, even though I had difficulties, I didn't have the same frustration. Rust is the hardest languages I made projects with, but yet was fascinating and a pleasure to use. Why? Because the tooling was fast and efficient, the error messages were understandable, and they actually made an effort to make it accessible. Angular doesn't. Angular is elitist and is just assuming you're from a specific background, and goes beyond the hard knowledge behind it.
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    @M1sf3t Maybe, but Rust is just an exemple, I played a bit with Elixir, and had the same feeling. I never had any issue with javascript itself or its construct. I used Svelt and vue and they doesn't add a huuuge layer of specific schemes on the top of js. Angular does that, because Angular require cogitive patterns from backend large scale engineering to do interfaces, which is a whole other domain.
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    Was btw the previous rant.

    And I guess you've successfully ran in the expectations trap.

    Your knowledge with previous frameworks / languages / ... leads to a certain expectation of behaviour in general.

    Since it doesn't apply to Angular, you get frustrated - your expectation is off.

    It's a pretty common thing in IT.

    Knowledge (or better experience) can help, since you might adapt your expectations based on new experiences.

    Might adapt since every person has his weaknesses and strength.

    For example, I suck at math.

    For me anything involving (higher) math is just impossible.

    Knowledge doesn't help here, I just suck at it. ;)

    The takeaway from this lengthy post is: Stick with things you're good with.

    When you don't like a certain thing like Angular, leave it. The frustration that comes from forcing yourself to work with it although you dislike it / it behaves not like you would expect it to leads usually to bad code TM.
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