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sariel5990132dFor almost the same price you can get the XPS 15 9500 with an i9 10 gen.
I still use my XPS 15 from like 5 years ago and it slams.
Install Linux and it's a great development workstation.
Don't waste your money and time on Mac. Points:
- a key M1 engineer just left apple for Intel yesterday
- the M1 is so far a very expensive experiment do you want to be a macrat?
- what other limitations are there to the M1 other than virtualization?
bahua13561132dM1 is an outstanding architecture, and within a couple years it'll have lots of great software written to support it, but we're not there yet. For the features OP is looking for-- especially virtualization --I can't imagine using anything other than KVM/qemu, on Linux.
webketje1527132dDocker is shit on Mac (especially) & Windows. On Mac it runs containers on Virtualbox, on Windows it uses WSL. Only runs natively on Linux and yes, it makes a BIG perf difference.
Root79721132dBut if you buy a MacBook, you’ll have to use MacOS, and it’s really kind of awful. :(
One engineer leaving a company the size of Apple is such an irrelevant argument in the grand scheme of things. Key engineer? Maybe. But there's probably 10 guys lined up who aren't half-bad to take that spot. It will realistically have little effect.
Lol @ "macrat". This just reeks of Linux snobism-fanboyism. These types of people will always find a reason to shit on Apple, even if the M1 has been a huge leap forward.
In the case of this type of work, Apple ARM does not seem like a good choice atm, at least not for the forseeable future. You are better off considering other options.
sariel5990131d@Ison a leap forward for who? Certainly not the consumers of apple products. Have we forgotten how bad Apple lock-in was 25 years ago?
"We're sorry, we won't fix your hardware issues. Feel free to purchase new hardware and we'll support migrating your data for a 'nominal' fee." -- Apple support 2019
Apple has never and will never care about the longevity of their products. They have consistently rejected providing hardware support for customers who paid full price with warranties.
Just to add to the hypocrisy that is Apple riddle me this: if I paid full price for the hardware and they aren't responsible for fixing hardware issues, do I own the hardware? According to them, no!
But fine, buy into the marketing bullshit. That's all Macrats care about anyway. Go buy the overvalued experimental hardware that was designed for planned obsolescence. Go hold your Mac close at night as it whispers sweet nothings into your ear, "your CPU architecture is unsupported for this app."
jasongodev476131dDo not buy Macs if you plan to dual boot linux. The HiDPI support in linux is painful. I don't blame linux. HiDPI is not needed at all in most cases. But it's your call.
It is not only a leap forward for Apple consumers, but a leap forward in mobile (laptop) technology. The Apple ARM SoC is a strong hardware package that currently has no real rival - sure, there are CPUs from AMD/Intel that can provide that level of performance, but not without trying to melt through your desk or without simulating a jet trying to take off (fan noise).
Apple doesn't care about longevity? Apple is still providing OS updates to phones that are like 7 years old. I see people who are rocking 5 year old iPhones/Macbooks without a problem while in contrast I rarely see devices that old from other providers.
I am aware that there have been cases of Apple refusing to fix products, but a couple instances does not dictate their entire policy. From my personal experience and the experience of others, Apple support is far more accommodating than most.
You're really strawmaning here - these are not conventional nor realistic scenarios in most cases.
Just because some people have had bad experiences with Apple warranty does not mean that everyone has the same. Most people get very reasonable accommodation from Apple.
I love how you use the term "experimental hardware" here as an argument against Apple. How would they be able to innovate without taking certain risks or without bringing certain "experimental" products to the mainstream? If Apple continues this route, it won't be long before this hardware isn't "experimental" anymore and it's just a different mainstream. Would you prefer if they had kept using shitty Intel CPUs that thermal throttle instantly?
The only argument I can agree with you here is planned obsolescence. I'm not a big fan of how Apple SoC basically makes it impossible to do any repairs or upgrades yourself. This is simply the price you pay for the features and Apple isn't the only one doing this.
prodigy214722131dSo many good reasons here, but i am still very confused. I have a budget of INR 160k if windows/linux laptop 260K if mac and 200K if i take a windows laptop with latest 12th gen intel processor after july.
I find the problems with windows/linux manufacturers, regarding poor battery, ugly displays, and continuous indexing by antivirus to be fundamental problems that prevent me from spending any more money on it the minimum amount required for my current work. That's why I prefer mac.
But macs are so freaking expensive and not even solving the most important use case for me that spending either on their least expensive or most expensive model seems impractical.
I created this spreadsheet image , thinking that maybe data will be helpful. but it confused me even more
bahua13561131dYou put assessments that 32GB of memory would last seven years and 64 would last longer. Maybe this is American throwaway culture talking, but do you really plan on keeping this laptop as your daily driver for over seven years?
prodigy214722130d@bahua i donated my first ever pc after 7 years in last November. the guy who got it is a student who only needs it for musics classes via zoom/google and some excel/docs work. that device is expected to get used for atleast 4 years and then come back to me.
i fail to understand how a device as big as a 15" laptop can be thrown away unless being heavily damaged? even in 2030, it would be able to run windows 8 and basic softwares without any issues
@Ison so what other competitors to Apple are building custom SOC devices?
So you agree that the M1 is experimental. Why should anyone pay the price that Apple is charging for hardware that's untested outside of a lab and paid reviews?
It's not just "some people". Go read the complaints warranty users have submitted on the BBB. Apple refuses to fix existing problems until you pay to fix cosmetic issues.
They flat out reject and fudge warranty information so it's purposely out of warranty.
There's dozens that are the same exact story just on the first few pages.
Apple is terrible to their customers. They're terrible to the market. Apple is just terrible.
But really, go ahead and buy into their marketing bullshit about how the M1 is three times faster and boasts longer battery life with no outside validation.
I'll use my five+ year old tech for my job. I would rather a device that is always working than a device that may drop support when it's no longer financially viable.
I am not speaking for myself, as my wife will attest: we have mountains of old computer hardware in the house. I am speaking for the American market that behaves as the, "consumers" that the manufacturers want. Buying new hardware as often as possible. Repair and reuse are almost condemned in this country.
prodigy214722130d@sariel dude you really need to use a mbp. i was too of this extremist mindset that apple laptops are overpriced and not worth their cost. but after getting a chance to work with them first hand , i am so changed . their fastness claims are real, their display and battery are beyond any laptop could offer and they almost feel worth their heavy cost.
however once bought they need to be kept as some glass crockery because even with the slightest of damage , they loose their charm and cost tons to replace :/
Eh, I've been using a mbp for several years now, and while I agree it's a very well-arranged operating system, with great performance(with blazing fans) for certain things, I get much better performance and flexibility out of Linux. The difference though is that I had to build my UX in Linux, which most people don't enjoy nearly as much as I do. I goddamned love it.
Lol, but it's not "untested outside of a lab and paid reviews". You're acting ridiculous. Plenty of average consumers have these machines and they have nothing but good things to say, because a lot of the claims they make hold true.
"Apple is just terrible" - you really lose any credit to your opinion when you start making these kinds of biased absolute statements.
"But really, go ahead and buy into their marketing bullshit about how the M1 is three times faster and boasts longer battery life with no outside validation."
You must really enjoy fighting these strawmen that you're constantly setting up for yourself. I've made no claims that Apple never misleads in their marketing, but still even considering that - the M1 has superb thermal performance and performs well all round. I'm not even talking about the top of the line M1 Max, but even the base model M1 for 1000-1300 EUR does a very good job for the money.
@prodigy214 I've used a MBP, I don't get the hype.
I can run circles around a team of devs using them with an Intel based Linux device.
The difference to me is more than battery or speed, it's mindset and technical experience. Apple makes it very difficult to do anything outside of the box, but not as difficult as Microsoft. This makes performing tasks difficult. From how your windows are organized to how your taskbar works, the OS is just a mess.
When I close an app, I expect it to close and release the resources it consumers to go back to the general pool.
prodigy214722129d@sariel I feel you. But like , 1 year before. When i first startedusing mac, I made a whole document on how things are being done differently and less comfotably in macs with so much limitation. the dots on the icons indicating that app is still open, even though i pressed the cross... this is one thing that irks me to even this day.
let me add some more... in windows/linux . you can right-click in any folder > create a new document or create terminal and behold yourself enjoying that folder. in mac, this most basic feature of an OS is FUCKING NOT AVAILABLE
However, after one year of usage, i have come to an agreement with macs that most of the stuff "I think I want" are really not much "if i don't get them" lol. somewhat a stockhome syndrome lol.
prodigy214722129dbasically, its a work laptop that is going to run your work softwares at tremendous speeds and batteries. at the same price, you can get:
- a heavy powerful PC that will give you both tremendous speeds on work s/w and an ability to play games/ hack your OS to your will but will not move anywhere(non portable)
- a heavy gaming laptop that will also give you the ability to play games/ hack your OS but compromise on s/w speeds and a pain in the back
"I can run circles around a team of devs using them with an Intel based Linux device."
Do you even realize what you sound like? You could make jokes about Apple users having egos or being snobs, but this just takes the cake. I can almost guarantee you that you're not that special.
webketje1527124d@prodigy214 my take after going through the entire thread:
Buy a Windows laptop w 1TB/32G/Intel9+. My fav is Lenovo. Remove all the preinstalled shit (antivirus, MS Store apps, third party apps). Partition the disk & install Linux dual boot. That way you get 2 for half the price of a Mac, and you can game at will and support terminal software on all OS'es. The only loss you suffer is shorter battery life (which to me, isn't important anyway)
The way I see it after working years with all 3 OS'es Linux is the best for devs, Mac is great for non-tech-savvy showoffs, and Windows is good enough for all the rest.
PS: I fucking hate the Mac touchbar and the absence of usb/ethernet & other ports. So if you go for Mac, factor in a 100$ dongle