211

Fuck this shit
I am sick of PMs and clients seeing Android as IOS but in Java
I'm sick of having to create dialogs that look like the stupid ones from ios
I'm sick of having to add backButton.setOnClickListerner->onBackPressed() in each fucking activity We fucking have software and hardware back buttons ffs
I'm sick of flattening everything just for everything to look like ios
I'm sick of the everyday comment 'but it should look the same as ios'
I'm sick of having to use broken libraries to add UI components that go against Android guidelines just to look like ios, while we already have native ones that work a ton better.

FFS!!! If our Android users wanted the same experience as ios, they'd have fucking bought an iPhone.

I'm terribly tired of all the comments 'but it's working fine on iPhone' ... We have 1000000 manufacturers to maintain the app for, if your fucking Bluetooth, camera, vibrator.. isn't working on your 'insert some alien oem phone name here' throw it in the fucking trash can. It's working fine on the 1000 test devices that I got.

And at the end of the day, fuck every ios developer who thinks we have it easy just cause we got 'wrap_content' . Why the fuck would you event need a perfectly responsive UI if you only have like 4 fucking screen sizes to take care of?!

PS: I love Android, but fuck people !

:)

Comments
  • 39
    As a user, I approve of this rant
  • 13
    Love this rant.
  • 23
    If clients dont know what they want, they barely know what their users want.
  • 8
    Well ranted. Here, have some sympathy.
  • 31
    To be honest Android's material UI looks much better than iOS's flat design... One should better aim for making all things look as progressive as on Android...
  • 7
    @wholl0p although maybe right but it's a matter of taste.

    But what I'm saying is Android users get their devices for Android experience. Companies should stop mimicking ios and asking their devs to copy. It's really maddening
  • 3
    Here's my 2 cents bro.....I know that feel. :/
  • 0
    I feel your pain.
  • 1
    I have a question.... why are all android/java apps (by comparison to their iOS/c++ counter parts) so glitchy, have lagged touch responsiveness and inefficient refresh rates?

    Is it because of...
    Poor memory management?
    An additional runtime environment on top of the call stack?
    Automated (or uncontrolled) garbage collection?
    Lack of 'pre-compiled' macros or defines?
    Poorly designed or attempted callbacks (lambda notations)?
    Mandated source inclusions (no optional header files)?

    You do realize that you are relying on (or trusting the efficiency of) a run time environment (JRE) that someone else coded in another language (C), right?

    (and that's what is ultimately leading to all these people saying... 'why doesn't it look like iOS?')

    So why not just use that language directly... and only trust yourself? (cut out the middle man)
  • 1
    Had the same problem when I started working as an iOS dev , but just the other way around because PMs in the company were all android users.
  • 2
    I use an iphone 7 but I code apps on android. I know how you feel having to put all those back buttons.
  • 6
    @greenhouse glitchy apps? this isn't 2009

    The only glitches come when they start asking you for crappy UI stuff. Like a reside or alide menu instead of using the native drawer.

    Also when you need performant stuff then yes you can go back to writing map reduce kernels (image processing for example)

    But lag during normal stuff would be really the developers fault. Not the os nor the JVM.

    And really whenever I hear about garbage collection, memory management (no offense) it really sounds like someone is trying to look cool on the internet. You're gonna tell me the 40 extra megabytes you're not managing right are gonna break your phone?
  • 0
    @jclin95 this one bugs me the most. It's so inefficient, and honestly I forget about adding click liateners on those damn back buttons cause I simply would never click them

    the other one I really hate is when they ask to "close the keyboard when touching outside" ... so stupid
  • 8
    An app should always follow the design guidelines of the platform it's on. An identical iOS and Android app should NOT look identical. They should only be similar in features, not design.
  • 0
    @vlatkozelka nope, I'm trying to tell you that when you are able to control your own memory allocations, you have more control over your app.

    And you didn't even answer or address any of the questions. Does that mean you didn't understand them? Just ask for clarification... there is no shame in that, as we are all always learning... so who's really just trying to look cool?
  • 0
    @vlatkozelka yea they’re so far up on the top of the screen. Why click that when you can just press the buttons right under your keyboard
  • 5
    @greenhouseMan I did understand your questions. But you're picking on something that's irrelevant.
    Just like any other java hater out there really.
    Sure running on top of a runtime environment adds some overhead, but it's not why apps are laggy/crashing. Again it's cause of lazy developers and bitchy PMs/clients.

    But you want an answer? well because JRE was made to support multiple devices which is what Android is all about. If you want to write an app using the native api, you will have to package for every cpu out there. You will also not benefit from the majority of the Android framework written in java.
    But let's put all of it aside. You would just be giving yourself a headache that you don't really need. Woohoo I allocated and freed memory, but it took me 5 years to develop an app that couldve taken 1 ! How smart

    Like I said, you only need native for performant stuff which you rarely ever need.
  • 1
    @vlatkozelka I am not meaning to pick on anything at all. And I am by far not a java hater. I am simply a firm believer in 'the right tool for the job'.

    I am not exactly sure what you mean by java being 'made to support multiple devices', however my specific questions were geared towards education of rich featured programming languages made available to support complex system architectures (like multi cores, multi threading, multiple design principles, abstract memory management).

    Java was not originally designed for these types of principles. It was created for embedded systems back in the 90s to run on microwaves, car stereos, house hold appliances... things that do not have complex system architectures, hence the need for a segregated run time environment to be placed in such small embedded systems.

    My questions were meant to start an educated conversation of why such a simple and limited tool like java is now being wide spread and forced on complex systems like OS based phones.
  • 1
    @vlatkozelka .....I am an android and iOS developer just like you. So to simplify my questions, which I believe have still not been addressed by yourself.... why are we using a programming language to create such rich user interface feature sets, when that programming language was never designed to do so in the first place?
  • 1
    @greenhouse Honestly I see no advantage at all of using any other language, besides maybe null safety, which is what kotlin is promising to do. If you want multi-core stuff, just do renderscript.
    The simple fact that I didn't answer your question is that however you phrase it, it still sounds like any other java hating rant :p
    Not to mention it's kinda impossible to answer. But simply put, Java works for Android, no need to break it :)

    Oh and no one is forcing Java on anyone. Whoever made whatever framework using Java saw it was good for him . He might have been wrong, he might have had no other option... you're always welcome to make your own using whatever language you like.
    Now please don't come at me with another "why are we using language x to do task y.." cause I simply have no answer, nor do I think most do.
  • 0
  • 2
    @greenhouse Sometimes "why" doesn't really need to be answered. It might be satisfying to answer from a technical perspective, it might be that Java is not the right tool for the job.
    It just so happens this particular "why" interests you more than it does me. Doesn't mean I've lost curiosity in everything, it's just not rewarding at all to find an answer for this one.
    To make it clearer for you: I might read 1000 books, and ask a 10000 engineers to find an answer, but still this answer would really give me nothing. I'd have spent all this time researching for nothing. And so it seems you did. I'm not going to make another Android using a new language while the current one works fine, tyvm.

    For all I know an engineers job is to find solutions, not burry himself in questions, thats a researcher.And don't forget that he still has to make a living while doing so. I don't think there will be job openings saying "we need a *insert favorite language* developer for Android anytime soon.
  • 2
    @greenhouse Good luck with... whatever lol
  • 3
    @vlatkozelka great rant. As a fellow Android developer I know exactly what you mean. Great responses to some stupid questions too. Why use Java? Because that's the language Google chose for Android lol.
  • -1
    @ryanmhoffman the question(s) was never "why java?". The (much more intuitively presented) questions were to insight a conversation of why java is an inefficient language for such complex hardware architecture... thus addressing his initial concerns of why the business world or PMs always ask "why doesn't it look like iOS?"

    Sorry, but you guys really need to learn how to read and pay attention... maybe then you'd be better developers, and hopefully be able to address your own concerns one day.
  • 6
    @greenhouse I've read your (not intuitively presented) question several times and still don't see your point. Java was chosen by Google so that is what we use. There are dozens of oems to support unlike iPhone so the jvm makes sense. And in the end that has nothing to do with why iOS doesn't look like Android and vice versa. Google and Apple both have their own UI/UX guides that are very different.

    Don't insult my intelligence or belittle my developing. You say you want to "insight conversation" but your tone sounds more like you wish to incite an argument. Be mindful that written word is harder to interpret than spoken word because the body language and vocal inflection is not present.
  • 0
    @ryanmhoffman you're the one calling my questions 'stupid' instead of asking for clarification. You should try taking your own advice. Hypocrite.

    And your still not paying attention. I never asked 'why did google choose java'. I don't understand why you keep answering that question, when I never asked it in the first place.
  • 1
    @greenhouse you are correct. Please accept my apologies for calling your questions stupid.

    I'm still quite confused about your point, would you mind rephrasing the question? I can't seem to figure out what it has to do with op's original rant?
  • 0
    @ryanmhoffman "I'm terribly tired of all the comments 'but it's working fine on iPhone'..."
    I run through these dialogues just like everyone else, and it's a pain I agree. From my experience, it's the in efficiency and unresponsiveness or lack of quick refresh rates, or glitchy and framing scroll rates that lead to PMs and users complaining. In my experience, the PMs are not idiots in the sense that they know it's not going to 'visually look' the same as iOS, but more so they are complaining that their iOS app version is running a lot smoother and leaner.

    So my response to this rant was to address why the PMs are on our backs about this, and could it be that we are using a language that was not originally designed for such complex hardware architecture (I know we don't have a choice, unless you want to go with JavaScript which is way worse).

    So... what is it about the environment we (are forced to) use that is leading to our PMs always on our backs?
    <review list in my original reply>
  • 0
    @ryanmhoffman thank you eliminating the emotion, as I was trying to do (which is very hard to do sometimes), and offering a chance to continue the conversation : )
  • 1
    @greenhouse I think at this point in hardware development with crazy fast processors and up to 4 gigs of RAM it's more about poor development than the environment used. I know there are still lots of old and cheap phones on the market running older versions of Android but that's all part of the fragmentation we deal with. I don't own a pixel but I have to imagine that just about any app out there would run smoothly on it.
  • 1
    My love to android developmemt is unbearable
  • 3
    Now imagine what web developers need to care of...
  • 2
    @tomexx check out my other rant ;)
    Web dev is an absolute mess
  • 0
    I also like material design far more than iOS one
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