I don't understand all this chat about misrepresented groups in tech. Why is it that this forced inclusion as reached even the tech community... Personally I have no problem working with anyone, but yeah...

...in 10 years, I never worked with a female colleague, never with a black person, never with a transgender/unicorn... But I would have absolutely no problem sharing with them... Every person Ive work with so far has been very passionate about tech and software and they sure worked their asses off to have the position they have, learning everyday and coding long hours...
If you're 'misrepresented' grab a fucking book, Google, train, fight, find your way... I never had enough money to study a degree but I loved CS so much since a kid I just made myself a fucking programmer and now I'm a white, straight, male working in IT, so fucking what.

It is a bloody virus. It is destined to infect and consume everything, unfortunately

That’s right. The world is full of straight white men and the inclusion of the rest of the globe while building tech for them is a non-issue. The ignorance...geez.

I think the people behind this are actually racist themselves but are incapable of admitting it and so they blame everyone else instead.

But doesn’t thinking that we need forced inclusion belie the belief that they couldn’t do it on their own?

Is that not offensive in its own right?

To those of us who actually don’t care about your gender or skin color, the idea of forced inclusion is ludicrous, but to them it makes sense because THEY clearly believe that they need the help.

Absolutely we should be encouraging more people from underrepresented groups to go into comp sci, but that doesn’t mean giving them a free pass just because of their skin color. That’s literally still racist.

I am black and a woman. I’ve worked as a developer and now an architect for over 12 years. I bust my ass and never was given anything based on the color of my skin. Your comment is racist and extremely insensitive.

@techog the comment is not racist.
The new reality is people asking to get something based on their gender, skin color, sexuality, etc.

You are an example of what it should be, choosing a person by skill and talent and not by some random characteristics just for the sake of diversity.

@devios1 yes.

@techog In what way is @cobolplz comment racist?

It’s clear that inclusion is not something you all are well-versed on by some of these comments. I suggest reading up on it as it is a real issue. I’ve never seen diversity in the way you are describing it implemented within a company (someone gets a job just because of gender etc.). It is a falsehood and does not exist. Maybe in your world you believe it does but how can you when you have never worked with a woman or a woman of color.

@techog listed here, inclusion should be based on merit, not on random coincidences.

The inclusion of people based on skin, gender and sexuality is as bad as the exclusion based on the dame things.

If you don't see this you are part of the problem.

At the end we are all human and diversity is an illusion, a ver stupid one.

I think the main comment implies bigotry and covert racism. Of course you can’t possibly be enlightened to that because it does not impact your life... 😒😒😒

So what merit did you have when you got your first job? I’ll wait. The point is to ensure the opportunity is presented to all on an equal playing field. Also, inclusion is not just exterior differences. It can refer to disabilities etc.

@techog same difference.
There id always worse and best, even when it id jour first job, and that decision should not be based on you skin, gender ir wheel chair.

You are aware that companies are required to fill race quotas right?
That means HR is going stound the office counting how many black people they can see, how many women, how many latinos.

Are you comfortable being part of that?
Just a number, just an item on a check list.

Perhaps you are not it now, but your have been and you will be.

@techog I've had to use merit my entire life. Do you know how many other white males there are competing for the same jobs as me?

I did well in high school, especially in maths and sciences. I graduated with honours and applied to a very reputable university in computer science. There was a lot of competition. My application was accepted and I busted my ass at university.

It was also a co-op program, which meant I got to apply to co-op jobs every 4 months. There was an entire process of writing resumes and cover letters and dropping them off in rooms full of drop boxes. I think we applied to five jobs a week or something like that, and if you were lucky you'd get an interview.

These were real job interviews with programming questions, etc., and it was a big school so there was lots of competition. I had to know my shit in order to even have a passing chance.

Unsurprisingly, the girls always did better. There were far fewer of them and it was not hard for the girls to land jobs.

@mundo03 You don’t get it. My apologies but you are showing your ignorance on the subject! Arguing is a moot point right now. Was the ADA (American Disabilities Act) created because of quota? Please read up on these issues and I hope you gain some knowledge about inclusion in the near future.

@devios1 Same for me too. I worked hard and fought for every position I got. I don’t know a person that should be included that does not work hard. However, you are likely to get the job over me in a given situation. Do you see the problem?

I don't want to discredit the girls in our program. They knew their shit too. But even back then it was easier for them to get a job just because there were far fewer of them.

@techog I'm not pretending racism doesn't exist in technology. I'm arguing that forced inclusion is not the solution to it.

@devios1 I don’t think anything is forced. I think people are becoming aware and enlightened. I’ve never seen anything as forced.

@techog It's the idea @cobolplz was commenting on. The idea of requiring companies to hire x% of this race and y% of that race. It's a complex issue, but I do think public awareness is important.

@techog At the same time, I also feel like we are moving towards a more individual-centered economy. And actually I would love that because then it really *could* be about merit and it takes this whole "hiring" part out of the equation.

At the end of the day companies are just the worst.

Typical 'murrica imho.

I've worked with a shitload of women, men, every colours, every sex pref, trans & what else...

Never had any problems nor they reported any.

In interviews I have rejected an equal amount of people.

Our culture is based on what you bring to the table. If you don't get it and bring non-tech issues in the tech world, please fuck off and get off my lawn.

You are the problem, you are corrupting our culture by bringing these viruses inside our systems.

The world is half men half women. How can you say that you've never worked with a woman, and NOT think there may be a bias against women in the workplace?

IMO the problem is twofold. There's definitely a bias against women in the workplace; they're regularly perceived as being less intellgient despite being just as/more qualified as you. But also there's just not enough entering the field, my uni classes were like 9:1 men:women.

Women think differently from men. People of different ethnicities and backgrounds think differently than you do. The good thing about a diverse team isn't filling a quota, it's bringing new ideas and ideologies to a team.

@Mbithy you’re a fucking idiot. Do you know the difference between me too and inclusion?

@tpanfl finally someone with sense. 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾

@notlikethis you don’t care because it does not impact you directly.

@karasube who’s “our”?

@notlikethis Not really what a strawman is? It was more like...an accusation? Not sure if that's the right word but close enough.

But she's right. People care about issues more when it directly affects them. I'm white/male, none of this directly impacts me. It takes extra effort to be aware of my biases, to speak against others' biases in the workplace so I can make the world a better place for those I care about.

@Nanos possibly along with weight.

I'm gonna use @techog logic and say white males are misrepresented in NBA also midgets in porn.
Im also only gonna grant intelligence to people that agrees with me. Gtfo plz

@cobolplz NBA and porn are not impacting the lives of everyday people you asshat....

I guess all of the laws in place to protect the disabled, pregnant women and minorities are unfair to you all. We definitely don’t want to prevent discrimination. 😒😒😒 Your logic makes no sense at all...

📌 @RememberMe

Woah. This has escalated up fast. The comments here are just representative of how little tech people understand social and economic issues.

The fight for inclusion is there because of planned exclusion. Most people here are like "hey it didn't happen to me... Hey i never do it"
This is not how social issues are.. The biases very much exist at every level. You fought your way into college while the other kid wasn't even allowed into school, or pass out of it. I come from a place where social exclusion has been throughout history. And those who think they aren't "entitled" give the same logic.

Heck its not a fight against you. It never was. It is against a system wherein exclusion is so seeped in, you don't even notice it. You fought your personal battles, everyone does. But you were not being biased against a systematic exclusion.

I should've tag this C#

@gymmerDeveloper 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾

FINALLY, some actual discussion!

Now we test the mettle of Devrant.

My bet is they'll do the same as all the other pussified so-called forums on the internet and shut down all actual discussion in case someone offends the blue haired loons.

The reason men are highly represented in tech is because men more often gravitate towards that kind of job. Oh wow, look, cause and effect, who could have imagined such a thing?

The whole 'woman in tech' is a good example of a massive media fuck up that fires back more than it helps. For good measure, an ex (female) Google tech lead wrote this amazingly insightful piece of post about it https://medium.com/the-mission/...

Of course, you can choose to deny reality and hide behind fairy tales about equality and misrepresentation... you know where else woman are misrepresented? Butcheries. Not enough female butchers. STOP!!!

Draw what conclusions you will from this, I won't offer any.

I went to uni with 2 ladies I was friends with. Not stupid, nice enough.

One I have worked with briefly - she is not a very good coder. She worked for a year solely in a technology that it took me 2 weeks to surpass her in. I am not that good. I don't belive its gender related - some people just don't get this way of thinking. She interned at IBM where she learned that technology beating out hundreds of candidates for the job including people I know that are the most clever people I have ever met. They didn't even get an interview. IBM offered her a grad job. She turned it down because she said she didn't know what she was doing there.

The other lady didn't know anything about computing. She got a 35k job out of uni and spent the first 6 months learning git and some Linux commands. Unfortunately that is legit.

They both received a women in engineering scholarship of1k at uni and with no women there got it by default.

@craig939393 my issue with this is that there are very talented men and women who work very hard and get less which is not what a capitalist society is based on and now ignorant people question the abilities of these women in tech, who almost certainly achieved on their own merit, but its difficult to just assume that whereas it's easy to just assume that of men.