12
Parzi
7d

You COULD buy the entry-level Mac Pro for $7000

or get this build for $4000 that's a fuckton more powerful AND has 2 monitors (with stands!) and just stick Hackintosh on it.

https://pcpartpicker.com/user/...

Comments
  • 16
    I may be in the minority here but if I spend over a grand on a computer again, it better be able to give me a blowjob while I watch porn.
  • 13
    My toaster has a better value vs cost than the Mac does.
  • 13
    And the monitors would be less than useless to a pro movie studio without the color depth and accuracy and the system wouldn’t have even a quarter of the gpu memory bandwidth that the new Mac Pro has.

    If you don’t understand that, the Mac Pro isn’t for you. You have a different use case and need.
  • 3
    @FrodoSwaggins hold up wait, when did you become a mac guy 😂
  • 9
    Also I just glanced at that build and it has sata ssds which are about 100x or more slower than pcie nvme, and that cpu is slower by a significant margin that the bottom three Xeon options. I seriously can’t tell if this is a joke or not
  • 12
    @M1sf3t I’m neither a Mac nor a Linux guy. I just get tired of people ripping Apple an asshole for the wrong reasons. There are reasons to do it but price isn’t one of them. Their stuff is actually decently priced for what it is, how long it lasts, and with the audience in mind. I’d even call it a bargain.

    iPhone: 2x faster than the competition and lasts 2x longer. Only costs 2x more.

    New pro display xdr: only display of its kind on the market for less than 10k and people complain about the stand

    New Mac Pro: best in class video performance with fpga fixed function pipeline, less than 10k (the fpga will likely put the price over that but still can’t even come close to being beat)

    Same story for iMac pro, Mac mini, etc.

    Conventional pc hardware can’t compete with specialized solutions.

    Point is, people complain about big numbers with little to no understanding of what they mean. The pc parts in this post would be a significantly handicapped Mac Pro and still cost more than 4K. To put it in the same ballpark as the Mac Pro it would put the price over Mac Pro price. This isn’t rocket science. Complain about the things Apple does wrong, not what they do right.

    Their pro users in movie studios begged Apple for over 7 years to bring back a pro machine like this and Apple knocked it out of the park, orders of magnitude above and beyond what I was expecting. If people flame them for this they won’t continue to make great machines and will go back to making 11 inch macbooks. Just be happy Apple is focusing on the professional market again and stop complaining, I guess that’s my point.
  • 7
  • 2
    @FrodoSwaggins actually if you look at in-depth specs on the GPUs in my build you'll see they stand toe-to-toewith the one in the entry-level Mac Pro except there's 3 instead of 1 and all 3 have a higher memory clock AND marginally higher GPU clock (1100-1200MHz vs 1340-1380MHz core, 6780MHz vs 8000MHz eff. RAM.) They also both have 256-bit busses, so there's that too.

    the monitors are IPS 27" 4k monitors at 60Hz with Freesync and LED backlight, 178° H x 178° V view angle and 1.07 billion colors. Unless you're referring to the Display P3 colorspace, which is Apple's attempt to transplant like one part of DCI-P3 into the sRGB colorspace, so it's not much better than regular sRGB (which nearly everything uses.) The new Apple monitor also uses 10-bit color (from what little i can find on it) and the monitors i've bundled have split-screen and PiP modes at the hardware level, which (I imagine) could be useful for, say, a video editing studio!
  • 3
    @FrodoSwaggins fair enough, I did here this one had a significantly larger value over that beer keg that they made. My biggest concerns right now is what does it mean for their general consumer model specs, we going to see them continue to put out a reliable product or are they going to cheap out like everyone else does when they push a professional model.

    We're already seeing the right to repair standards starting to waiver, I'm a little concerned they might start backing down on the right to upgrade next but we'll see.
  • 1
    no it's not devrant

    @dfox
  • 2
    @Parzi honestly I don’t work in a video studio and I don’t need the nice monitors but I have three friends that do and it’s really hard for the rest of us to understand how big of a deal color accuracy is. Most monitors out there are a complete joke for high budget video editing and the reference displays can cost up to 100k for one of them. It’s a big deal to have something that can produce reference quality images for under 10k and I can literally guarantee those monitors don’t do it.

    I edit text for a living so I don’t even care if my displays flicker constantly (they do) so I’m a very different market.

    Also, multi gpu provides a pretty bad speedy coefficient and a single MPX (not base configuration I know) is going to whoop the ass off of a 10 gpu configuration so hard it won’t even be funny. They literally designed a new interconnect with amd to make this work, and have a fixed function decode/encode chip (the afterburner). I wouldn’t even bet money that those gpus you chose would beat the base configuration. Proof or I don’t believe it; the memory bandwidth to the gpu on the new Mac Pro is absolutely insane, and 10x insane on the MPX card. That’s what Apple does best... insanity.

    But seriously, your SSD solution I don’t even think there is anything out there that can compete with the Apple pcie nvme controller and the cards that come closest cost 2k and will easily put you over budget.
  • 1
    @FrodoSwaggins ooh, and if we're getting into iPhones:

    iPhone XS Max vs Galaxy S10:

    the XS Max's CPU is a hexacore running at (2 cores at 2.5GHz, 4 at 1.59GHz) while the Galaxy S10 is an octocore running at (2 cores at 2.73GHz, 2 cores at 2.31GHz, 4 at 1.95GHz).
    RAM? 4GB vs 6-10GB
    GPU? quad-core 1100MHz vs octo-core 1900MHz
    Price? $1000 vs $800

    yet again, Apple is out-muscled for a lower price xD
  • 2
    @Parzi that's caused by too many characters I think. Tags and emojis don't seem to be tallied right in the character count so check that.
  • 1
    @FrodoSwaggins also, since there's basically zero specs on MPX so far except "something something power delivery", there's no real way to compare performance yet aside from Apple-provided multipliers from unknown base values for the highest-end machine. However, from how they're making it sound on their site, you don't even *get* any MPX bays without at least an extra purchase, if they'll even be available on the entry-level box. All i'm seeing is standard PCI-e slots for absolute stock (1x x16, 2x x8) without an I/O card (which adds a half-size x4 slot.)

    "Up to 2.6GB/s sequential read and 2.7GB/s sequential write performance."
    PCI-e 3.0 x4 SSDs can get up to 3.9GB/s under ideal real-world conditions, so either we've got a PCI-e bus running a proprietary slot or we're eating the I/O card's only x4 slot. In the case of the I/O card, again, their material makes it sound like a separate purchase, so it's either M.2 or SATA 3 on stock, which are nothing special.
  • 1
    @M1sf3t no emojis, and this was a comment, so no tags.
  • 2
    @Parzi shit mentions my bad, I mix those up.
  • 1
    @M1sf3t 's all good.
  • 4
    Oh do I wish people could stop ranting about the new monitor and computer from Apple. They're finally going in the right direction, so why the hell are you fucking them over?
  • 1
    @M1sf3t decent PC for games costs just around 1 ton... So...
  • 2
    @FrodoSwaggins base versions of new mac pro are crap nevertheless. Only high tier are suitable for that professional workload.
  • 1
    @irene pre-built or diy?
  • 2
    @M1sf3t both. And without LED unicorn vomit inside
  • 1
    @irene pretty sure I could rig up my own led's for less than 50 bucks. In fact that would probably be the safest part of it for me to do 😅

    I think that last time I tried to price any components I was up to about 8 or 9 hundred, but I probably left out a couple of things I wasn't thinking to include.
  • 0
    I’d choose the cheese grater over that diy pc.
  • 0
    @ScriptCoded how are they going in a good direction? Every model they release is more and more expensive. Trashcan at least offered similar price to what you would get for if you bought hardware yourself. For new Mac Pro many people already proved that base model is overpriced by 2-2,5K
  • 0
    Also, let's see how they do with the cooling. I'm sceptic about that passive CPU and GPU cooling combined with such hardware...
  • 0
    @mindev I’m sure they have though about it. They would have stress tested and thought of this.
  • 0
    @M1sf3t well, yes, by doing some compromises you'll get a bit less than 1000. That also depends on your country and the amount of peripherals you need.
  • 0
    @mindev it's not entirely passive at all. There are just separate blowers.
  • 0
    @irene probably cut a lot of corners when it really comes down to it. I like to thrift shop 🤷🏻‍♂️
  • 0
  • 0
    @FrodoSwaggins thing is: all those big movie studios already have the more expensive monitors with high color accuracy
  • 1
    @M1sf3t its actually not a bad design if the air route is done right.
  • 1
    @mindev It's not even meant as a consumer grade computer. The word pro has been used a crazy lot, but this for sure is true pro gear. For many professionals who actually need crazy hardware these aren't bad prices. Their monitor for example is competing against reference monitors that can go beyond $40 000. I'm not an Apple fan at all, but for the first time in a while they're actually allowing for some form of customization.
  • 0
    @Parzi
    Besides, consider that in a studio that price difference isn't all that much compared to the things that really take money - people and land. It makes sense to spend more to get good quality and reliable tools (and that's just what pro Apple devices are) and avoid something that's just hacked together. This is actually on the reasonable side, some pro stuff can cost ridiculous amounts of money and still be worth it over time.

    This is also why for pro applications the "free as in free beer" component of FOSS is pretty much useless, they'd gladly pay for even a small increase in productivity because pro users are hardcore af and any difference gets magnified, and besides, it costs way more to pay pro folks than to buy software.
  • 0
    @M1sf3t Isn’t that actually a thing now with those USB mouths?
  • 0
  • 0
    @Parzi you need to look at some benchmarks. The iPhone cpu absolutely kills the offerings from Samsung and Qualcomm both in terms of performance AP and graphics by a massive margin. Comparing how many cores is totally meaningless and comparing the “GHz” of the CPU’s is also totally meaningless as that has no bearing on how many instructions can post per 100 cycles on an average workload, the width of the integer pipeline, etc. CPUs haven’t been designed like that since the 1980s. The A12 can run Z3 smt solvers faster than any Xeon ever made, and way way faster than the Samsung/Qualcomm chips. That chip is crazy fast, and you’re saying it’s not good enough because it is just a Hexacore vs octacore. So again, your facts are just wrong, please look at benchmarks and try out workloads.

    Your assertion also that sata ssds come even close to pcie nvme or that m.2 nvme is in the same class as 8 lane pcie nvme is also wrong, I don’t know where these “facts”are coming from but the Mac ssd controller is in its own class and that’s a fairly knowable and testable thing. There are benchmarks out there that support all of this.

    If you don’t believe me message me back in a few hours and I’ll pull up some url sources for every claim I’ve made here, and everything in those urls will be way less dumb than “omg the Samsung has more cores at more ghz and therefore is faster!”
  • 0
    @fuckwit then they can use those :)
  • 0
    @irene I disagree. The dual card interface with the ultra wide proprietary pcie lane architecture and the custom 4-way interconnect alone will put the Mac Pro in 1-of-a-kind performance bracket that nothing else out there can beat, the memory capacity is there, and the afterburner card is a genius innovation too to put the fixed pipeline decode etc. There. In their demo they could play 3 8k raw streams with transform to the display simutaneously. There’s literally nothing that exists that can do that other than the Mac Pro, that’s ludicrous.

    I feel like it could have been nice to have dual socket Xeon, but honestly that’s not going to be the bottleneck with this machine, and in any case the intel interconnect is absolute trash so that would have introduced a bottleneck :/
  • 1
    @FrodoSwaggins what i mean is puttin that with a low end processor is pretty much pointless.
  • 0
    @FrodoSwaggins actually not because "6 vs 8 cores", but the raw power per core too. Most of this info you want me to see I can't find, so please provide it and i'll be happy to change my stance if need be.
  • 0
    @Parzi

    https://homes.cs.washington.edu/~bo...

    https://browser.geekbench.com/ios_d...

    Benchmarks are kind of dumb, but here you can see that when you boil the performance of the new iPhone down to a number it slaughters every android device ever made.

    Again, clock speed has nothing to do with cpu performance, speaking as a cpu architect. It is one of a thousand factors. And the Apple single core performance is so good that it doesn’t even matter that the Samsung chip has more cores, Apple still kills it.

    And in reality the Apple chip is probably even faster than these benchmarks make it look, Samsung and Qualcomm are notorious benchmark gamers, and when put on real workloads they fall on their face.
  • 1
    @irene if you’re saying why waste time with the base cpu I agree, if I buy one of these systems I’m getting the 28 core chip. I wish Apple made it easy to find what actual model Xeon it is, because the base model might actually be a super performant single-thread oriented Xeon but I can’t actually check benchmarks without model numbers. To ark.intel.com to compare I guess...

    It’s still possible that with the base cpu it’s not the bottleneck. All depends on the workload.
  • 0
    The Mac Pro specs are impressive. Here’s the catch:

    Apple will produce this computer the way it did the “trashcan” pro before it, and the tower before that.

    A high performance machine at an incredibly high price where the value is derived solely from your specific application- and in the case of the Mac Pro, it’s a small niche of people. Their components are expensive, overly so. Take it from someone who took a company computer in only to be charged over $400 for a 1TB hybrid SSD on an iMac.

    They’ll then ignore it and make little to no updates to the hardware for years- the same way they did with the previous Pro machines. Their specs will grow older, rival technology more performant, and the public will once again talk about how Apple has abandoned the professional community, which it does.

    Apple is all about shareholder value and constantly designing and updating Pro level machines with this price bracket and performance, and yes- a $1k stand don’t drive stock performance- thus, no shareholder value. I’m waiting to see if they retain their “assembled in America” approach to that Mac Pro.

    Let’s not pretend that Apple’s new Pro machine will do anything other than be bought by a small amount of people and garner media attention. And any argument by regular users who won’t buy it and have little insight into its use value is hard to view as anything other than fanboy vs. hater.

    The rest of us are largely indifferent or just have fun with the jokes. In defense of the self-builder rigs- it’s not about outright performance or “same for less”, it’s about the level of performance that you can get, and are you willing to pay the difference for what you’d perceive to be the differences if you bought the Pro.
  • 0
    @nixed I think it will be different this time. The new pro machine clearly is architected like a 10 year machine, where as the trash can hit the limit of the thermal envelope before the first refresh. And looking at the new pro machine it’s clear why it took 6 years to re-engineer

    I say let’s wait and see what happens
  • 1
    @FrodoSwaggins I’m interested in seeing what happens as well. The only thing I personally have against it is that the pattern on the front triggers my trypophobia haha.
  • 1
    But what if I need to open more than 5 tabs in chrome? Don't i need the 1.5TB of RAM that the maxed out mac pro offers?
  • 0
    @spyridonas just do like i did and amass 3TB of pagefile
  • 0
  • 2
    @dontbeevil now wait to see 4x the price of normal SSD, because Apple. And sheeps will praise them for it, even if the drive will be no different than others.
  • 1
    @mindev my point the entire time
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