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@Fast-Nop my feelings are 50/50. Haha
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@Demolishun hahaha. Jesuscript! Lols.
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Well, JS was really a pain in the early and mid years and it took like 20 years to mature. I'm feeling like an old man saying this (being 28), but younger web developers don't even know anymore what browser incompatibilities are, what browser hacks are, or the importance of Flash or Java as a superior (and working) alternative to JS.
And while I love JS, I understand everyone who gave it a try years ago and still suffers from PTSD. -
@sboesch we’re in the same age. I used work on flash and php before. I got no complains because i left that behind me. Haha. Im just happy with what is JS now even though another framework will comeout in 3..2.. hahahaha
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To be fair, JS is a horribly designed language. Unfortunately, it's also the only one that runs on the browser, and for now, we're stuck with it.
ES6 made some big improvements, but it will continue to be a bletcherous abomination until someone decides to revisit some of the older issues that JS has, but that haven't been dealt with because it would break backwards compatibility.
A good collection of articles is https://medium.com/javascript-non-g..., or some googling around for "javascript sucks" will point you in the direction of some well written rants on the subject.
I don't know what kind of experience you have outside of JS, but if you want to see what a beautifully designed language looks like, look into LISP or Smalltalk, just for the sake of it.
For languages that are actually used outside academic pursuits, I'm very partial to Ruby. It's not quite as elegant as LISP or Smalltalk, but then again, no other languages get to that level either. -
@poly LISP has failed for these main reasons IMO:
1) Idiomatic LISP code is an unreadable mess of untyped lists, see also https://codeproject.com/Articles/... .
2) LISP isn't just a language, it's also the stuff you make languages from. Which means that every project is practically in its own domain specific language. The result is that it attracts primarily very bright lonewolf programmers.
The industry has no interest in this type of programmer because while he MAY be a short term asset, he will CERTAINLY be a long term liability. Namely, after he's gone.
See also http://marktarver.com/bipolar.html for this and the next point.
3) Meanwhile, a real world language like C has an "obfuscated code contest", and even worse, C++ doesn't because it would be too trivial. But in both languages, you need cooperation to get anything considerable done at all. That's what keeps real world coding in check. -
@Fast-Nop I love all 3 languages you mentioned(Lisp(as in Common Lisp and Clojure), Js and C++) in the negative but you are right my good sir.
What had me rolling was when you said that c++ obfuscated would be too trivial omg, I can::only(**imagine)[=]{ some::namespace.how(&that).wouldBe()};
C is just beautiful, even large code bases look beautiful, but I can only estimate that to be because the people working with it have the tenacity to work with it and you really need to master it to become efficient. JS not so much, even on large and famous projects the codebase is messy af. I know its warts enough because I have really learned how to work with it, but still.
Lisp is more or an academic endeavor, I do have a medium sized app running in Clojure, but wrote a backup(in Python which I also dislike but that is another story) since no one else but me would understand it from the original codebase. -
@poly ou dear a Richard K Eng post, I can't take a fucker that quotes himself as a backup seriously, and neither should you.
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@poly i used to use c++, vb8, java, assembly, and php on my undergrad but not professionally. Then work with flash action script, but never thought of how programming design really as i was thinking thats there own feature. Is that bad?
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@r2d2 No, I can’t see that’s bad in any way.
I had a couple of courses where we explored the design and some old or uncommon languages such as Pascal, LISP, Smalltalk, CLOS and even APL and Prolog, and those courses influenced my thinking and taste on matters of language design.
I think C is a solid, well-built language, but I’d hardly call it beautiful, like @AleCx04 does. -
@poly thanks for that. I just dont get people hatin on a language. Im just cool with it. Haha
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@Fast-Nop ok boomer
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@jorgeogj Shut up, Wesley.
Related Rants
This never gets old...
Exactly
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Went to meet up last night. I was there acting like I have no experience and was just starting to learn programming. Suddenly this guy turns and faced me he said non verbatim “don’t use JavaScript thats the worst programming language, its used by wanna be software engineer. Use c# they have blazor so you wont have to code using JS”. My blood pressure went up guys. I understand this because hes kinda old and dont want to learn new things but i got caught off guard. To be honest im not mad, im just sad though, imagine if i was really new and had no experience and just started few months ago. All the hard work and studying will be nothing. Btw hes nice he offered me free food and beer its just JS.
If you’re learning any language specifically JS. Dont mind the naysayers. Just learn it and be good at it. Languages has its use cases. Conversation with whats better programming language is useless and a waste of time thats what my professor said and its true.
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