Clojure developers: why has our awesome language not taken the world by storm? how do we get new developers interested in Clojure and Lisp! its not as hard as people make it out to be!!

Also Clojure developers: Yeh so we know you are all probably not used to an editor like emacs *crowd looks in confusion*....BUT YOU NEED TO DOWNLOAD EMACS, INSTALL ALL THESE PLUGINS, MAKE SURE THAT THIS SHIT CALLED CIDER WORKS AND LEARN ALL OF THSE CTRL+<Fuck-Mx-You> COMBINATIONS!!

As someone that has been in the community for so long...I can't with the mentality of some of these people, and it scares me because I fear for Clojure disappearing.

For me, its mostly that it operates on the JVM and not native.
I try to avoid JVM as much as possible.

@metamourge people outside the jvm ecosystem has never really been a target so that doesn't really matter. It's being marketed as a solution for the jvm

@AleCx04
That's the point, isn't it.
After the rise of Go and Rust, native is getting its popularity back.
Companies are recognizing the worth of fast running, dependency free executables, both of which are not easily capable with things like the JVM.
If they'd develop a native Compiler like Jetbrains does for Kotlin, I bet they'd get more users.

Also, JVM based software is famous for having an nonsensical complicated build-workflow.
Whether that is true or not, its keeping new devs away from it.

My major blocker for even looking on clojure is jvm and in extension that its owned by Oracle.

And I do not trust Oracle! Not even if they open source things.

Make it compile to microsofts il and I might look at it ;)

But with .net core runnable on most platforms I see very little need to.

Ive gotten a few people into clojure by showing them how much you can do with very simple things. People in data analytics and machine learning are gonna be more interested in clojure than web developers is my experience.

@Khepu Nearly every modern launguage has been modified to appeal to the ML, AI crowd...
So no they wont learn that obscure launguage just to do ML if they can do the same thing in: python, JS, C#

@Voxera
Why not go the full 9 yards and have an llvm-based native compiler?

Haven't looked into Clojure yet. It reminds me too much of Scheme, which I learned at University in first semester Programming class. Nice language but too many parentheses, and no static typing, the value of which I now appreciate very much, especially in languages such as OCaml or F#. These two also hit a sweet spot in terms of terse syntax for me.

@Voxera this! +1

@metamourge I am not seeing that anywhere really. The "native" development jobs I have seen still very much ask for C++ or C, if I see people asking for Go it is for web development, that it pushes compiled binaries is just an extra.

Either way, if we want Native while still keeping generics and other language bells and whistles we can just use Graal. Mind you, I don't have anything against Go, and I know it fairly well. Its just that you or your statement was really not the target.

Sounds like "Pepsi because fuck coke!"

@Voxera are you aware of the openjdk? Either way there is a Clojure runtime for Microsoft.

For some reason y'all seem to think that you devs were the target for conversion into what I wrote.

Alow me to illuminate a little more, when I say new devs I mean literal new people into the world of development that want to do programming on the JVM. THAT'S WHY I made mention of how they get thrown Emacs to them.

No, I don't give a fuck about your personal bias and preferences, I could care less if your armpit hair prevents you from liking the JVM or whatever the fuck.

This was literally not targeted at you 🤣🤣 I am not trying to convince your asses, I was merely noticing what a NEWBIE into PROGAMMING IN THE JVM AND CLOJURE might see.

@metamourge do you mean for clojure?

@Voxera yes.

@AleCx04 well your first question to existing clojure devs was why it had not “taken the world by storm”.

That question is best answered by the non clojure devs that get asked by newbies what to learn and why they do not recommend clojure ;)

A newbie are more likely to ask a non clojure for advice :D

@Voxera not quite, but I can see your point had the question been openly made to members of a different community. This is more so one of the dialogues that I see inside the clojure community taken place.

Also, this was obviously made in a sarcastic and ironic way.

@AleCx04 then I apologize for the intrusion :)