14
Fast-Nop
34d

Win 10 on ARM will not make it. Here's why:

- The devices are ridiculously overpriced.
- Performance is abysmal with emulation.
- Native ports are rare because nobody buys the devices.
- MS doesn't get it.

Instead of addressing the chicken and egg problem, MS even fucks up more: Win 10 S, which is usually pre-installed, can only run shit from the app store. Yeah MS, you think just because Apple gets away with this crap, so can you? Newsflash, Windows isn't iOS, and you aren't Apple.

Even VS 2019 doesn't install the ARM toolchains by default. Because, why would MS entice devs to address ARM64 as conveniently as possible?

MS will just keep gawking at Apple like a pig at a clockwork, and Win 10 on ARM will go down like Windows Phone.

Comments
  • 2
    But it already runs on raspberry pi
  • 7
    @vane Runs? More like hacking shit together until it limps on one leg.
  • 5
  • 3
    @Fast-Nop @sbiewald yeah it needs a few optimisation tricks and they're be fine, at the end they can launch it in subscription model in cloud lol.
    Nobody cares about os these days as corporate earn more money trough cloud services.
  • 5
    Reminds me of all other "Windows for other architecture variants". NT 4.0 was available for x86, MIPS, PowerPC and Alpha. 2000 (NT 5.0) was only for x86, as vendors didn't want to support all different architectures.
    With Server 2008, Itanium was supported. Emulation for x86 was slow, and AFAIK there were compiler problems for native compilation.

    Windows CE was available for multiple architectures with considerable success, but as usually only a single application from a single vendor runs on it who has complete control over the whole manufacturing chain with only a limited user interface...

    On the other hand, I hope fewer companies manually but automated, the same with automatic tests. Supporting a new architecture may be easier than in the last decades.

    ---

    Windows S isn't really a new invention, Windows RT was more or less the same (and wasn't very successful...). I rather think it is an attack on Chrome OS (and AFAIK one can transform an S installation in a full one).
  • 4
    @sbiewald That's the point - yeah, there's closed iOS, there's ChromeOS. The most stupid thing to do as late-comer is to ape what is already there. That's what MS fails to understand.

    Since MS is very late to the party in every other area that classic PCs, they need to be massively better than what's already there, not just similar. That's the price for sleeping so long.

    But MS doesn't understand how to successfully attack when being the underdog.
  • 4
    Overall most people need browse web, open document, spreadsheet and presentation, browse files and play media.
    Only some need to install custom software that are mostly games I believe.
    Those are like 5-6 applications ( excluding games ).
    And we’re all failing at this shit.
  • 4
    @vane Yeah and a machine that is not designed to do more than very basic shit isn't worth like a 1000 EUR. That should cost 200-300 EUR tops. Like, uh, Chromebooks.

    Also, MS doesn't announce Win 10 on ARM as "some crippled shit", but as "real Windows".
  • 1
    This is Windows 10 RT isn’t it?
  • 3
    @irene No, it isn't. RT was another failure than this.
  • 1
    @Fast-Nop Windows 10 ARM is full Windows 10, just without applications (at least without fast ones), and it is hardly Microsoft's fault device manufactures price their devices that high.
    And even if manufacturers put Windows S on their over prized devices...
  • 3
    @Fast-Nop I’m getting confused by all of the failure. I can’t tell them apart anymore.
  • 2
    @sbiewald Microsoft IS the manufacturer of the Surface Pro X. At least it has Win 10 Home.

    However, 1000 EUR only with 128 GB storage and as tablet. With 256 GB and keyboard, that's already 1300 EUR. And I'm already talking Amazon prices, not the recommended ones. Totally ridiculous.
  • 5
    @Fast-Nop That’s called monopoly. Linux on desktop is not existent and apple is expensive so they just try to squeeze everything from consumers as they don’t have alternatives.

    Nobody cares about free software anymore. Blame the cloud but I blame people who prefer to pay for simple solutions instead of improving community products that are also over complicated right now due to most of creators of such products are probably retired or moved somewhere else. Documentation is not existent.

    People would rather have their ass featured on instagram for corporate money then start using and promoting free software.

    It comes from the top as public administration should be forced to use only non commercial products.

    Sorry for long text. Fucking time and money ruins everything as always.
  • 5
    @vane I think the main problem of free software is the lack of a business model. You can't make money from it, so it has to be a goody for making money somehow else. Like selling hardware (Intel / AMD for servers). Or consulting, though this will breed software that will need consulting in the first place.

    And of course people want simple solutions. That's the very basis of a workshare society, and everyone except devs gets this idea.

    Actually, also devs get it - in any area other than SW where they expect society to give them easy to use solutions. Like ready-made shoes, or bread ready to just eat. Not only after dicking around with shit to make it work. It's only in their domain where they fail to understand that they are supposed to be the providers. It's sad.

    BUT! With Win 10 on ARM, the competition wiping it out isn't even free software. It's regular x86 laptops with regular x86 Windows.
  • 2
    @Fast-Nop yeah exact problem is with public sector. If govs force consulting companies to open source public sector software there will be lots of money there as those are billions paid divided for each desk.
    Instead of spending those on licensing you could finance couple of companies with couple thousands developers who could replace the corporate software with open one.

    Otherwise if nothing is open we’re facing the situation where people who decide where to spend money doesn’t care and also corporate doesn’t care cause there are no alternatives.

    As there is no competition the innovation is not existent and we’re living in same crap for couple pf decades.
  • 4
    @vane Very good point. I think many of the things that the government funds via public money should become public property, except of course domains like military weapon systems.

    On the other hand, governmental bureaucracy is often the antithesis to both innovation and usability, so that would need to be addressed. They can't even make laws so that people understand what they are obliged or forbidden to do.
  • 1
    @Fast-Nop I thought you are talking about the Samsung one which AFAIK isn't much cheaper.
    In the case of the Surface X, that's just idiotic from Microsoft.
  • 2
    @Fast-Nop of course but we should treat source code like sidewalks, parks or public roads not like bunkers that nobody can enter.

    If I build a park from public money and ban people from entering it freely. Check license and allow only 2 people to be present there. Cover each tree and sell separate tickets to show them. If there are more people then 2 put them to jail for violating park privacy policy and patents you would call me crazy. But that’s what’s happening right now.
  • 3
    @Fast-Nop Microsoft’s naming convention for products is as transparent as their licenses.
  • 0
    I thought you could change S to non-S fairly easily?
  • 1
    @Demolishun Yeah, but it's ridiculous enough that it even exists, just adding even more confusion to their overblown edition system.

    The only point one could make it that it's a totally backwards way of keeping the manufacturers from installing tons of useless and bloated shit.
  • 1
    I get tired of the Open With option showing big bold letters "Find App in Store" with small letters underneath about finding something actually on your machine. That ticks me off more than anything.
  • 0
    @Fast-Nop You can make money on open source no problem. Typically you use the open core strategy or become a PaaS or SaaS. Or you get paid to set up on prem and the customer pays for support and customization.
  • 0
    @irene No, you can't. Even one of the biggest heavy-weights in OSS (Redhat) is still a small fish. Also, such a business model breeds SW that needs service and consulting in the first place. User-friendly SW doesn't need that, and end users don't want to hire someone to install SW for them.

    The problem even with your ideas is that it's not the SW itself that generates revenue so that you have to make the SW in a way that the revenue paths become a necessary evil for the users.

    That's different when the business model is to sell HW - then the SW can and must become easy because anything else would effectively raise the TOC for the HW.
  • 0
    @Fast-Nop Yeah i don’t agree. There is plenty of COTS that is shit out of the box and I have worked on those projects. I have seen large orgs pay buckets for process automation customization, pay on prem install, pay per user per month, pay for integrations into auth systems, and pay for integrations into various other systems. Then bug fixes are slow because they have to wait for update packages.

    I also have worked on fully custom apps in OpenShift for the same orgs. They end up being cheaper, better at automating the critical processes, and better integrated. The maintenance on those is corrective, adaptive, preventative, and perfective. The licensing is nonexistent. The OpenShift hosting costs.

    Why not have all projects the cheaper and better option? Because if something goes wrong the org can blame the COTS system company instead of taking responsibility. They would rather pay dump trucks of money for shit than take any responsibility. They make the decision based on optics.
  • 1
    Did someone think it would make it? lmfao
  • 0
    Why do you care? Are you some kind of ARM enthusiast?
  • 2
    @M3m35terJ05h There are some people who are interested in tech trends. Often devs, you know.

    If ARM powered laptops succeeded outside of the Apple ecosystem, that would put a lot of pressure on Intel and AMD.
  • 2
    Holy shit! I just uninstalled the app store and now it doesn't ask me if I want to open my file with the app store anymore!

    https://shaadlife.com/disable-the-m...
  • 2
    @Demolishun Near the end of the article: MS caught lying once again.

    *sigh* When Win 7 came out, things were good, and I thought MS had improved. With Win 10, I conclude that it's the same old shit company it has always been. Only worse.
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