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Tagging the privacy freaks I know for discussion @linuxxx @FrodoSwaggins
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@bitsnpieces This is going to be interesting....
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@bitsnpieces I just find it hard to define paranoia in this case. The things I try to 'protect' myself from are quite real, not imaginary and the fact that mass surveillance can be abused is seen in third world countries but also for example the UK/US.
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@linuxxx mass surveillance is a disease and will take us down. I agree. But I mean googling for stuff like "how does a callback function work in angular" is fine. How can someone abuse things like this.?
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@FrodoSwaggins
Two things I would like to discuss here.
One. Companies compromising my data. So this is where the part comes about how much you trust that service. I feel any data can be compromised if you really go for it. As the lay man would call it any data can be hacked. But, then again google or any services that count on the end user not knowing about how their data is being used, is kind of fair enough. I dont need to know how the internal combustion engine of my car works, I only want it to let me drive thats it. -
@FrodoSwaggins
Two. Shaping your choices and influencing you. Isnt that what runs most of the businesses? I mean right from the newspaper you read, to the hoardings you see on the side of the road is all meant to make you lean towards their idealogy/product. I might be going against the rule of this platform but bringing in politics here because it is relevant to this discussion. Here in my country during the elections for the prime minister, there was a slogan doing rounds almost everywhere which subconsciously was etched into the minds of people and he went on to become the prime minster. I dont claim to go against these things because as you said they have all the weapons and we are fighting them with just sticks and stones. So if being influenced is what you dont want, the best thing to do would be go live in a forest far away from the civilization. Because in today's world you cannot avoid coming across some adv or the other whose aim is to bend your mind towards their product. -
@FrodoSwaggins @linuxxx
What?? Is there a list?? What list is this??
*Presumably paranoia kicking in -
@FrodoSwaggins
Facebook I agree is a fuckall cancer plaguing the world one user at a time.
Though you need to appreciate google with the things they have come up with. If google maps is not a revolution then I dont know what is. But if your goal deviates from serving your users to taking advantage, that is a huge ass problem. But then again, they are giving you this huge ass thing for free its only natural to expect some trade-off.
After all everyone cant be like linus. -
The thing that irks me about modern day internet isn't the fact that some sites snoop on us and sell our data. It's that a majority of sites do it, and that having your personal information collected and sold without your consent is so commonplace that a majority of people have accepted it by this point.
Look at Equifax. Fuckers took millions of American's personal and financial information, made it impossible to opt out, and stored it with terrible security measures. Then, when they got hacked and all of that info got leaked, they offered "protection" so that customers couldn't sue their ass.
It's seriously fucked up, and makes me paranoid when I think of how many other companies out there have similar data on me. I don't know how secure they are, so why would I trust them?
If data collection and sale was done by only a few companies, people could easily avoid them. But it's fucking everywhere. -
@FrodoSwaggins
Information being exchanged is now on a global level because of technology. That will obviously evolve the ways you consume content. Like very few people I know read newspapers. The rest all have some or the app on their phones for that. I know that proves your point that it has gone from a uni-directional thing to being bi. But then again isnt that the general way of progression? I realise this shouldnt have been the way things are going right now where someone is holding you ransom because they have your data, but I still feel it all comes down to the trade off. What you are giving v/s what you are getting.
Also, I dont think its criminal since they already lay down whatever they are doing in their terms and conditions. The users are the lazy ones who dont read them and lazily agree to them. Its a classic courtroom strategy. -
@FrodoSwaggins
By giving something for free psychologically you have already created a user base for yourself. I have been giving a lot of examples lately from my country but here goes another one. There is this telcom company called Jio who gave free internet to users for like 7 months and people went bat-shit crazy. The trade off here was obviously recognising user browsing patterns and making them used to internet so that after those free months even if they charge you a truckload of money, you will pay because now you are addicted to this world of internet and cannot live without data. But that is how sadly most businesses work now-a-days. Of course there are idealists who always go by the book but how many of them actually survive. -
@FrodoSwaggins
Also we are into this field and we are aware about these things. But an average joe would just want to make his life easier and not care about who or what is using your data in what manner. Like a mechanic would point out to you how you are driving your car wrong and how the company has installed some part which limits the performance or something similar. He will then try to sell you some stuff which somehow eliminates that. But I not knowing jack shit about cars wouldnt care to go around looking shit up for each piece of technology I use. Most businesses thrive on exploiting their uses and the thing that this is the scenario in today's world is a sad affair. Of course you can try to limit yourself being exploited as much as you can but then its subjective and varies from person to person.
So it is the conclusion that privacy is subjective? Probably. -
@Pharilax
See if your government itself spys on you, you arent left with any option other than packing your bags and moving to a different country. Unless you start some revolution and manage to override it (which I would totally support by the way). Another example from my country, where facebook tried to lure people into using their free basics app defying the basic right net neutrality. Significant and well known personalities came to the fore-front and finally managed to tell those fucker bastards to go back to where the fuck they came from. It was a success for the people of the country. So things like this keep me hopeful.
Dont know what the future holds. Lets take a seat and watch things unfold. -
@FrodoSwaggins
If a company engages in such practises they can be sued. The person might not win the case against these giants but at least it will make news and bring this thing to the forefront. This is the reason, lack of awareness. The steak that sizzles more is the steak that is sold more. As simple as that. The only solution is to publicize the good practises more and more. And open source would definitely make it happen. Who knows google might become obsolete at one point and people for a change will have control over their data. -
@FrodoSwaggins Entirely agreed. Thing is that I wouldn't mind Google if it took its users privacy serious and wasn't integrated within a mass surveillance network.
I always find it weird/funny how, whenever I bring up that mass surveillance fact, people actually start defending it and calling it normal.
Since when would full-time tracking/surveillance of ordinary people who haven't done anything wrong and even through services provided by companies like Google, even be anything close to acceptable?!
If a company integrates it's users within any kind of mass surveillance, sorry @bitsnpieces but I couldn't ever call anything from that company even remotely acceptable/okay/good. -
@Lahsen2016 Thanks! That sentence is utter bullshit as well. Maybe your data can't get you into trouble now but how about in 10 years from now? Maybe that 'nothing to hide' data becomes 'very much to hide' data. The thing is, you can't know. And for that reason, I try to only use services which seem to respect it's users' privacy.
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@linuxxx
People like to use google and its products because it appeals to them and makes their lives easier. By people here I am referring to a guy not aware about whats underneath the hood. And google always manages to get away with it because there is no good alternative for the some of the products that they offer. Obviously if you give me an alternative to youtube or google maps even if they are paid, I wouldnt even think twice before switching. The people at google have developed some revolutionary shit and are using that to get away with whatever they please. I guess its fair from their point of view because you get to be arrogant if you have something to back it up. Its like I have the best cake in the area, I am not asking you to come eat it but if you do it will be on my terms. So until there is another bakery in town who bakes the same cake, I dont think I will go hungry.
Surveillance in any form is wrong and should never be encouraged or tolerated. No doubt about that. -
@Lahsen2016
I am all up for educating and spreading awareness brother. Also, I am not questioning anyone rights to use anything. This is just a discussion about where do we draw the line for privacy after all. There are people who have their entire lives mapped onto the internet with numerous devices installed in their homes and regularly updating stuff on social media. On the other hand there are people living in remote villages some of whom have not even heard of the internet. So there are extremes on both the ends of the spectrum. I am asking where should the line be.
And even I find that argument bullshit about not having anything to hide. Everyone has something or the other that they wish no one would ever know about. Thats privacy and it is your right. Even I am not "forcing" you to use google or facebook. In case you didnt read the rest of the comments above, I am all up for privacy and security too. My point here is again saying the same thing where to draw the line.? -
@Lahsen2016
Leaders of any country are a bunch of assholes. Lets get that thing straight first of all. But then again if the government is really hell bent on fucking taking up all your personal infomation on gun point, are you left with any option? Again putting forward the same points I did in the earlier comment which you probably didnt read, if the people decide we will not bow down to this dictatorial rule over giving up everything that makes us an individual, probably things will turn out good. -
@bitsnpieces Seriously, openstreetmaps! I even use it for navigation on my phone through an open app and it works better than Google maps imo!
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@bitsnpieces Damn that sucks. Where i live, it literally has more documented as for places etc than Google maps. And through an app I can entirely use it offline!
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@bitsnpieces I've got the same with YouTube still yeah, maps is easy for me as it crashes constantly anyways on my phone so not much of a choice anyways ;)
!(short rant)
Look I understand online privacy is a concern and we should really be very much aware about what data we are giving to whom. But when does it turn from being aware to just being paranoid and a maniac about it.? I mean okay, I know facebook has access to your data including your whatsapp chat (presumably), google listens to your conversations and snoops on your mail and shit, amazon advertises that you must have their spy system (read alexa) install in your homes and numerous other cases. But in the end it really boils down to "everyone wants your data but who do you trust your data with?"
For me, facebook and the so-called social media sites are a strict no-no but I use whatsapp as my primary chating application. I like to use google for my searches because yaa it gives me more accurate search results as compared to ddg because it has my search history. I use gmail as my primary as well as work email because it is convinient and an adv here and there doesnt bother me. Their spam filters, the easy accessibility options, the storage they offer everything is much more convinient for me. I use linux for my work related stuff (obviously) but I play my games on windows. Alexa and such type of products are again a big no-no for me but I regularly shop from amazon and unless I am searching for some weird ass shit (which if you want to, do it in some incognito mode) I am fine with coming across some advs about things I searched for. Sometimes it reminds me of things I need to buy which I might have put off and later on forgot. I have an amazon prime account because prime video has some good shows in there. My primary web browser is chrome because I simply love its developer tools and I now have gotten used to it. So unless chrome is very much hogging on my ram, in which case I switch over to firefox for some of my tabs, I am okay with using chrome. I have a motorola phone with stock android which means all google apps pre-installed. I use hangouts, google keep, google map(cannot live without it now), heck even google photos, but I also deny certain accesses to apps which I find fishy like if you are a game, you should not have access to my gps. I live in India where we have aadhar cards(like the social securtiy number in the USA) where the government has our fingerprints and all our data because every damn thing now needs to be linked with your aadhar otherwise your service will be terminated. Like your mobile number, your investment policies, your income tax, heck even your marraige certificates need to be linked with your aadhar card. Here, I dont have any option but to give in because somehow "its in the interest of the nation". Not surprisingly, this thing recently came to light where you can get your hands on anyone's aadhar details including their fingerprints for just ₹50($1). Fuck that shit.
tl;dr
There are and should be always exceptions when it comes to privacy because when you give the other person your data, it sometimes makes your life much easier. On the other hand, people/services asking for your data with the sole purpose of infilterating into your private life and not providing any usefulness should just be boycotted. It all boils down to till what extent you wish to share your data(ranging from literally installing a spying device in your house to them knowing that I want to understand how spring security works) and how much do you trust the service with your data. Example being, I just shared most of my private data in this rant with a group of unknown people and I am okay with it, because I know I can trust dev rant with my posts(unlike facebook).
rant
privacy rant
drawing the line for online privacy
long rant