21
OnurOz92
13d

Attention Software Engineers!

Quit shooting yourselves in the fucking foot! And this ESPECIALLY goes to new grads. I get that you have just finished school. I get that you need a job! But don't fucking settle for a $30-$40k salary because you're "entry level"! The only reason why there are employers who offer that type of salary is because they know that there are enough idiots who will settle for it!

On average, an entry level software engineer's salary is between $50-$60k at the very least! For Senior developers, it is at least $80K/year (although an argument can be made for why they shouldn't settle for less than $100k/year).

Each time a moron low balls his/her salary, that brings down the market value for that talent. And keep this in mind! They don't have a choice but to hire you. They could choose to outsource their work to poorer countries but they don't want to do that due to obvious quality-related reasons so they HAVE TO hire you if they need the work done. And since the ball is in YOUR COURT, demand your fair salary. You went to school for 4 fucking years. You dealt with that stress for 4 fucking years. Why settle for a salary that you could've made without going to school?

Comments
  • 8
    If only I can find a job with that salary
  • 3
    @devTea Make no mistake. I'm in the same boat. But we cannot afford to devalue our talent.
  • 5
    Which country has such salaries? I would get this only on my dreams.
  • 3
    @OnurOz92 you also can't afford anything else without a job.
  • 2
    Where should I fly to get that lower salary? What country for that 30k$ yearly?

    And about poorer countries... It's not code quality concern. Its concern about us not giving a single fuck if we hate the job becouse we are greatly underpaid.

    At least my country is on middleground... kindda poor, but not extremly poor... I would say code quality is pretty decent, you can hire here developers for few bucks (10$?) an hour and they will be fucking rich in our standards and will be happy to make best quality stuff they manage :)
  • 1
    @irene Canada & US
  • 2
    I forgot to add:

    This is in the context of US & Canada
  • 2
    @DubbaThony You won't live well in Canada for $30k/yr
  • 5
    @OnurOz92

    I knew I was born in the wrong country !

    I guess I could always marry in..
  • 2
    what about so called full stack devs? They are basically watering it all down too.
  • 2
    @norman70688 they are myth, I hate that role on a project, I’m not hating a fullstack dev, it’s just that you have to pick a role in a project either front or back for that said project, especially if the project is big
  • 4
    Damn, in my country (Portugal) you get 8/9k a year entry level, if you are lucky
  • 5
    Where I live you are lucky if you get a job that pays 9k-10k USD when you are recently out of college.
  • 3
    @shivayl

    Where I am, entery level is 1/3 of that.

    After 40 years, I recently got a payrise to $8k !
  • 2
    @Nanos Jesus, we got to move to another country
  • 2
    @shivayl

    I would if I could, but it isn't that easy.

    First, hardly anywhere would except me, only two places, India and Uruguay.

    And you can't just move to such a country as penniless, where do you live, what do you eat/etc.

    No doubt there would be language barriers, and I struggle enough with English !

    I reckon I'm best placed where I am, and work my way up the pole so to speak.

    My long term plans, is to save enough so I can try again to run my own business for a few years, coding and excepting donationware payment solutions.

    I reckon then, if my software is good enough, I'll either make enough to live on, or more.

    If not, then obviously not good enough and I'll go and do something else, like try and make cars !
  • 3
    > Entry level is $50k

    I need to move apparently.
  • 5
    People you may be making 8k or whatever, but remember your cost of living is most likely exponentially cheaper than most parts of us/Canada

    Keep this in mind.

    Don’t directly compare 80k to 8k

    Thanks
  • 1
    @dalastTomCruise Sadly this can be a part of the problem as well. I've met a few engineers who thought because they lived in more rural areas, their salaries should be much lower.
  • 2
    @dalastTomCruise
    It cheaper but it's still not enough to live comfortably.
    In Portugal you need at least 15/20k.
    Of course in the Americas and other countries life is much more expensive.
    Life is getting more expensive here, but the pay it's not getting higher.
    But this thread makes sense, if everyone accept lower salaries, they're certainly not going to be raised
  • 3
    @shivayl yep my point doesn’t go against not accepting lower wages, just warns against comparing salaries from two different country’s where the cost of living differs greatly.
  • 1
    welcome to capitalism
  • 1
    @dalastTomCruise well, then all those number mean jack shit
  • 0
  • 0
    In my country (Italy) the average salary of an entry level developer is 20-25k €. Like wtf
  • 0
    @irene They mean a lot to people in US & Canada. I never suggested that these numbers were universal (and tbh I thought that it went without saying).
  • 1
    @DubbaThony In my experience, I've never seen or heard of a "quality developer" from 3rd world who works for $10. No offense but everyone I've seen at that price bracket have been utter shit.
  • 0
    @dalastTomCruise

    Monthly electricity bill here = $250 USD

    Room in the city = $700 USD a month rent.

    House in the country = $350 USD a month rent.

    Hard to even live hand to mouth.
  • 1
    @OnurOz92 depends on where you live and what are your living costs. My total living costs are like... 400$ monthly. max 500$ but thats when its winter and I kick in heating. Counting any reoccuring stuff I could count... Poor countries work a little bit another way apparently.
  • 0
    EDIT (good to know I have 5 minutes to edit):
    Thinking about it, it depends what do you mean by quality developer. Maybe there is a gap, for me its code that works in different enviroments, that you can read easly and has at least some documentation.
    If you think of buissness analysis, and whole shit like that, than nope. Coding in my honest opinion is translating what someone wants to machine that will execute what someone wants. If he wants something silly, sure I will say IMHO its pointless but as long as you pay, your choice.
    Now when you count if you work for 10$ an hour you are monthly above 1500$ and your expenses are 1/3rd of this. You are living your life basically.
  • 0
    @OnurOz92 you never said in the post that they are meant to represent any country.
  • 1
    @OnurOz92 I work for less than 10$ an hour. I'm offended. 😒
  • 1
    I did mention later on that this is in the context of US & Canada.
  • 1
    @irene

    Oh I thought they meant $10k a year !

    I'm only on $1 an hour !

    Which considering how many years I was on 1/3 of that until very recently !
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