19
AleCx04
79d

At work, my closest relation is with the DBA. Dude is a genius when it comes to proper database management as well as having a very high level of understanding concerning server administration, how he got that good at that I have no clue, he just says that he likes to fuck around with servers, Linux in particular although he also knows a lot about Windows servers.

Thing is, the dude used to work as a dev way back when VB pre VB.NET was all the rage and has been generating different small tools for his team of analysts(I used to be a part of his team) to use with only him maintaining them. He mentioned how he did not like how Microsoft just said fk u to VB6 developers, but that he was happy as long as he could use VB. He relearned how to do most of the GUI stuff he was used to do with VB6 into VB.NEt and all was good with the world. I have seen his code, proper OOP practices and architectural decisions, etc etc. Nothing to complain about his code, seems easy enough to extend, properly documented as well.

Then he got with me in order to figure out how to breach the gap between building GUI applications into web form, so that we could just host those apps in one of our servers and his users go from there, boy was he not prepared to see the amount of fuckery that we do in the web development world. Last time my dude touched web development there was still Classic ASP with JScript and VBScript(we actually had the same employer at one point in the past in which I had to deal with said technology, not bad, but definitely not something I recommend for the current state of web development) and decided that the closest thing to what he was used was either PHP(which he did not enjoy, no problem with that really, he just didn't click with the language) and WebForms using VB.NET, which he also did not like on account of them basically being on support mode since Microsoft is really pushing for people to adopt dotnet core.

After came ASP.NET with MVC, now, he did like it, but still had that lil bug in his head that told him that sticking to core was probably a better idea since he was just starting, why not start with the newest and greatest? Then in hit(both of us actually) that to this day Microsoft still not has command line templates for building web applications in .net core using VB.NET. I thought it was weird, so I decided to look into. Turns out, that without using Razor, you can actually build Web APIs with VB.NET just fine if you just convert a C# template into VB.NET, the process was...err....tricky, and not something we would want to do for other projects, with that in we decided to look into Microsoft's reasons to not have VB.NET. We discovered how Microsoft is not keeping the same language features between both languages, having crown C# as the language of choice for everything Microsoft, to this point, it seems that Microsoft was much more focused in developing features for the excellent F# way more than it ever had for VB.NET at this point and that it was not a major strategy for them to adapt most of the .net core functionality inside of VB, we found articles when the very same Microsoft team stated of how they will be slowly adding the required support for VB and that on version 5 we would definitely have proper support for VB.NET ALTHOUGH they will not be adding any new development into the language.

Past experience with Microsoft seems to point at them getting more and more ready to completely drop the language, it does not matter how many people use it, they would still kill it :P I personally would rather keep it, or open source the language's features so that people can keep adding support to it(if they can of course) because of its historical significance rather than them just completely dropping the language. I prefer using C#, and most of my .net core applications use C#, its very similar to Java on a lot of things(although very much different in others) and I am fine with it being the main language. I just think that it sucks to leave such a large developer pool in the shadows with their preferred tool of choice and force them to use something else just like that.

My boy is currently looking at how I developed a sample api with validation, user management, mediatR and a custom project structure as well as a client side application using React and typescript swappable with another one built using Angular(i wanted to test the differences to see which one I prefer, React with Typescript is beautiful, would not want to use it without it) and he is hating every minute of it on account of how complex frontend development has become :V

Just wanted to vent a little about a non bothersome situation.

Comments
  • 8
    I was flashplayer developer when I started then they killed flash and I switched to languages with open standards. Closed and open source software dies sooner or later cause people dies or change jobs and there is no one to replace them so new people instead of maintaining code mostly add code to existing one and you end up with 5 or even 10 times bigger codebase then it needs to be. Then the project is unmaintainable so you create new version “better one” but it’s not. This version is not quite compatible with old one and the story begins all over for some time. Like in “Groundhog Day” with Bill Murray but the day is longer so you don’t remember it actually happened once but you have some kind of stupid feeling like you’re in matrix or something is wrong.

    That’s the shortest story why it happens.
  • 1
    I guess that's the thing, the VB* developer pool isn't large. Statistically it's less than 1% of the .Net userbase, when you remove poeple like myself that know it, but also know and prefer C-style, ocaml style languages. Most of the existing user base came from the VB6 dev pool as mentioned, they were also the ones most likely to resist alt.net which produced things like MVC, web API, modern DI, Reactivex, Roslyn, etc. As a member, the VB contingent was always infuriatingly resistant to new ideas, and learning anything on principle. They were also the first to decry favoritism and abuse when it became evident we were leaving them behind, the grasshoppers to our ants.

    The VB.net team itself was content to be on maintenance for years, while the C# team worked with the F# team and sought to take the best from everything, introduced FP/streams, pattern-matching, metaprogramming, pushing the envelope to the point that even Java couldn't ignore it anymore. Anders then went and on to make typescript, taking all he learned from C#, just like he brought the best of Deplhi/TPascal to C#. And we were all super happy to adopt it and lean into his direction, dropping coffeescript like a hot rock.

    I'm with you for the most part; I'll help and teach anyone anything, but VB was such a small userbase and a team that wasn't interested in modernizing, but still drawing an enormous budget. It was time for it to move into the old folks home with Cobol.
  • 1
    I think VB.NET was always just meant to be here for a transition phase from classic VB to .NET and further to C#. I was forced to use VB.NET at my old company and just hated it! C# is so much better.
  • 1
    @SortOfTested you hit the nail right in the head! I do see that the largest user base for .net is C# developers. I prefer C# way more than VB.NET myself to be honest, I am just more used to that way of writing code and C# is to me an example of a great language. And every time I speak to someone that is mostly just versed in the VB language they just complain about them not needing "all the things you guys on C# have" <- that mentality to me is just wrong, makes it seem like they are content with not keeping up with the fast pace of the development world, and I highly believe that in the development in order to stand still you first need to run! a Lot!

    I just have a thing for legacy stuff, I think it carries nostalgia, at least for Microsoft stack based developers. I know a lot of people that would not have been where they are right now if it werent for how easy it was for them to start with VB up to 6. The good ones moved on to newer and better, the rest, well.. :P
  • 1
    @roli09 I like em both, but have a serious preference for c#. I can still see the merit behind vb.net tho, even without bein and expert at it i could easily determine the code behind my dbas projects, i feel that vb.net does not give you much space to do fuckery and has some sort of there should be one way of doing things manthra to it
  • 2
  • 1
    @SortOfTested I totally forgot about that fucker πŸ˜…
  • 0
    @SortOfTested lmao point well made
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