I think that most people complaining about JavaScript didn’t write any line of JavaScript in there life.

I tend to believe the same. Or they needed to use it, didn't bother to learn it and bitched about it when it didn't work their way.

Imagine having to learn how to use something before using it. Sacrilegious!

You dont have to, for a general idea. Java is verbose, I dont have to personally write to understand.

@aviophile no, but before criticizing something you should learn it :)

Every programming language is criticized and still others love it, that is a sure indication that the ones loving it know something the haters so not ;)

for me personally, not true.

i started out as webdev, so i've been using JS daily from 2008 to about 2016, and then i kept an eye on what's going on in the area, for the sheer amusement over the WTFery, and because i still had to use it occasionally.

JS is a clusterfuck. its ecosystem is a clusterfuck. its libraries are a clusterfuck. and devs that like it are usually a clusterfuck too, and responsible for the most clusterfuck-y JS code out there.

And the ones who did? What about us?

I write js for a living. I complain about js for a living.

@Midnight-shcode you started 1 year before me so I will venture to say that we have pretty similar paths in terms of web dev knowledge base and I don't think JS is a clusterfuck. The ecosystem? totally, I can't really fight for it, Node in its purest form works great and you can get preeeetty damn far without having to use any external dependencies and just stick to the core std.

But people running around building shit does not mean that the language in question is shit, else we could have the same idea behind every other platform out there. I mean, look at all the great things being built with C++, from web browsers to AAA titles to many different critical libraries such as Tensorflow. I mention this because Linus Torvalds famously shitted on C++ as not being a good language because there are many bad developers working with it. We can't possibly consider a language to be bad because of the people using it.

@AleCx04 True words

@Voxera unnecessary purism, before critisizing x you should do x, no i do not. It is like not being able to critisize a footballer because you dont have football education.

Used to moan about JS when I did nothing but heyday front end dev. Now, I miss those days.

@aviophile in football you have a lot easier to compare performance between players.

Not so easy with programming languages ;)

And when you criticize a player, you either compare their performance with previous performance or to other player performance.

For a programming language you could compare speed or memory consumption in a similar way, but that is also mostly the runtime not the language.

Programming languages is not as similar as two player in the same role.

Its more like you criticize a football player when comparing them to a golfer, the comparison will be irrelevant since they have completely different goals and requirements.

@AleCx04 node itself is a clusterfuck, it doesn't need any external dependencies to be so.

and it's also a good example of why js itself is a clusterfuck: the useful libraries/reimplementations of it all have two points: force JS to do something it was never meant or designed to do, and hide everything that makes it obvious that js was never meant or designed to do anything else than bounce some gif around the window.

@Voxera only a wamen could say you can easily compare football players. (Casual sexism is da best)

@aviophile more easily than programming languages, on the other hand, I never watch football ;)