So I got the boss boss' attention...

And basically want to tell him after like 3 years this is what I think the state of the current team is but I'm the only one that realizes....

But then I wouldn't be a team player and tattling on my boss.

He's a nice guy so I don't want to do it but then another part of me goes.... this can't continue, I can't take anymore of this..,. and I want off on this "sinking ship"... So I'm pulling the fire alarm..

Is it really sinking, I dunno but it looks like it to me... So should I say something? How should I say it?

Just found the is the original, below pic is some variant. Either works I guess... But yes that's not me, I'm the one observing...

https://theverge.com/2016/5/...

You should talk about the problems. Either you're right and he might have missed it,or you're wrong and hopefully would see how wrong you are.

@iiii should I include the meme?

Not sure how to present the problems. I do have a list but it's long.

@donuts I don't know

Take a moment to gather your thoughts. List the things that are wrong, prioritise them, and then take the problems you consider most crucial to your boss. If you just say "everything is wrong, I can't stand it anymore", he'll think you're being a drama queen and likely ignore you. If you say "hey, X and y are wrong and here is how we fix them", that's much more likely to result in a productive conversation.

@AlmondSauce well I know what's wrong but don't know how to fix them.

And actually I would be taking them to my boss's boss.

I've had the conversation with my boss many times already whenever I see a problem but he's not even bringing them up with everyone else or following them. Last one was "you should go talk to these other teams" he goes"we're hiring new people, now I'm off to do an interview".

And I'm wondering "are you just gonna hire another monkey?"

@donuts Hmm, it's tricky. If you can, try to phrase things positively - so instead of "none of these guys understand Spring", approach with "I think the team could really benefit from some training in Spring best practices", or "I think we need to hire some spring experts", that goes a lot better than "my team are incompetent" (or similar.)

Beyond that though, I'd potentially consider leaving. Trying to turn things around is certainly noble, but it's not always feasible or even possible in some environments. Don't be brought down by the ship when you can still jump to another!

@donuts I've been in that position several times during my almost 20 years of software development. It is a difficult decisions and a difficult talk. I don't think it ever gets any easier.

Some thoughts:

If nothing changes, you are going to quit your job eventually anyway. Or not, and suffer even more before you eventually burn out.

If you see that something is wrong, you need to speak up about it. Staying silent only prolongs the problem (and your suffering).

How people (team mates, managers, bosses) respond to the problem and to what you say usually gives you a good idea about who is part of the problem, who is trying to fix things, and who is unaware or uncaring.

It will also give you more certainty. If the response keeps being "Don't worry, all is well" then you know things will most likely not change.

If, on the other hand, your concerns are shared, change might actually happen and things might improve.