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That's a difficult position...
Objectively speaking, it would be best to do something about it, as it's not her fault and she's getting help. That alone demonstrates good personality growth and if you think her skills are up to snuff and she's a good employee otherwise then it would be unfair if she got into problems over something she can't control if she's doing a good job.
It's a bit of a dilemma, because Ideally you would talk to the colleagues on her behalf and explain the situation.
on the other hand, it's not clear to me whether she confided in you in good faith, that you wont spread information about her mental health or not...
You should talk to her first about this and see what her stance is. It's possible she's used to this treatment and knows how to deal with it (even though it might make her cry). If she's not sure what to do either, then the next best option might be for both of you to talk to your local HR person or a team leader and see if they can help you. -
From their perspective, your other colleagues are right. A 20-something as crybaby is completely inacceptable. If they are thinking about firing her, that would be no wonder.
On the other hand, she does know that her behaviour sucks and is also doing stuff to change that. It's just that the others don't know this, and either she improves quickly, or she'll need to explain the perspective before getting fired.
One thing is sure - you must not say anything to anyone without her consenting beforehand. That would not only be a breach of trust, but possibly also of privacy laws, and this is the worst category of information you can think of - health related.
One hint: don't ever mention the word "mental" as in "mental health" or "mental problems". That carries a stigma that she would not get rid off.
You can say that she didn't have an easy life or whatever, but that she wants to leave that behind her, which is why she has taken to professional counselling (don't call it "therapy"). -
First, check with her if it's okay to discuss her situation "if it ever comes up", or something like that.
If she says no, then tell her what you overheard and say that if you want to address it with them, you'll be right there by her side to back her up 100%.
If she says yes, THEN GO AFTER THOSE MOTHERFUCKERS.
I know it's easy to say this when I'm not the one who's job could potentially be on the line, but honestly, sometimes you just gotta risk it all for what's right, and defending your people - ESPECIALLY in a case like this where they are SO very wrong - is such a case.
Maybe it's just me, but unprompted cruelty, which is what it sounds to me like you're describing, just bugs me SO much. The only saving grace, such as it may be, is that they didn't do it right to her face . But, that's small consolation.
You're in a leadership position, you can't be afraid to lead, and among other things, that means speaking truth to power, even if it costs you.
Do what's right. Easy ;) -
Sounds like the crying is unvoluntary and makes her uncomfortable - which makes it an illness.
So she basically has a non-contagious illness that somehow makes stress hormones color her face and stimulate their lacrimal glands.
You don't fire people for lisping or being gay either.
So just tell them, that it is a chronic illness. It is treated, but as it is with chronic illnesses, there obviously is no guarantee that it will fully go away.
It is important to make clear that it obviously isn't a personality disorder - as she still can respond calmly and professional.
That said, why the fuck does she have three bosses?!
If you are her boss, it actually is your job to communicate with that two assholes who would get a good worker fired because of an illness.
At least try to make them switch to communication by email - so they don't have to get reminded of their own mortality by exposure to people having any illness... -
@Oktokolo You can fire people within the notice period without any reason at all. That's what the notice period is for.
From a company POV, the question is whether she's still enough of an asset in terms of her hard skills. Then there's also the aspect that her behaviour has negative impact on team work.
I would outright refuse to work with her over any medium other than email or support tickets. Not least because a crying woman is a considerable security risk for a man these days if there's no paper trail. -
@Fast-Nop
I am aware of the existence of assholes.
That is why i suggested easy solutions fixing the actual problem (assholes seeing a non-standard skin tone and tearing).
There are way more annoying actual personality defects that are extremely common. Someone blushing and tearing for no apparent reason is definitely minor in comparison to what you normally see almost everywhere - especially in comment sections... -
@Oktokolo That has nothing to do with "assholes". Early 20s indicates junior level, and if you can't even do a code review, which you need a lot with juniors, that's a bummer. Junior level would also indicate limited value in hard skills.
You wouldn't accept someone with other temper control problems either, such as yelling instead of crying. -
@Fast-Nop
But "she responds calmly and rationally". So code reviews aren't a problem and it certainly isn't a temper control problem at all.
I would get that she wouldn't be able to do customer support. But it seriously sounds like being just a cosmetic issue - easy to deal with when you know it.
For a dev job such an issue is as relevant as skin color or sex (meaning: Not at all).
People who discriminate by non-relevant illnesses are assholes (or even worse: Pureblood lunatics). -
@Oktokolo "Other than that", she responds calmly. Yeah, that's no different from someone having yelling issues when being criticised.
And I don't see the issue as non-relevant because it just sucks. Actually, even she herself thinks that it's not acceptable as is - that's why she's doing a therapy.
Also no, likening it to unrelated issues such as skin colour which actually have no impact doesn't pan out because behaviour does have impact. -
It’s passive aggressive, but I’d start by anonymously leaving a medical article about involuntary stress responses, especially one about crying involuntary, on each of their desks, right in top of the keyboard where they can’t miss it. Maybe along with a note of when the next sensitivity or diversity and inclusion training is. If your company doesn’t have that maybe just print an article about that and leave it there too.
Some folks are just ignorant and not mean. It’s worth giving them the resources to educate themselves and then see if it continues. If it does then it might have to be addressed more head on. -
@Fast-Nop
Comparing it to racism is definitely fair as soon as having an illness not hindering to actually do the job and despite actually trying to get it fixed is enough to get fired!
Differing skin color is something that sucks for a lot of people too.
Being ugly, obese, having serious stuttering/lisping issues, being of the "wrong" sex or gender or having the wrong skin color...
That are all things that shouldn't exclude you from literally all professions whatsoever.
The common dev job already is as far away from doing something with people as it could get - so what jobs would your generosity allow her to do? -
@Oktokolo The illness does hinder her because it does suck for the other co-workers. That's reason enough to hire someone else (who btw. would also like to have a job). Also, you're evading my point that it's no different from someone who would be yelling at people who criticise.
Also, what's that nonsense with "job allowed to do"? Companies are not there to cater for that - the social system is, not least because the next question would be what to do with people who can't do any job at all. If in your world people without jobs starve, then that's the actual issue, not the firing.
The VP level of the company there does understand that the point of a company isn't providing social shelter. Sure it would suck for her to get fired, but so what? The company doesn't revolve around her.
Given the VP talk, I think she will get fired if she doesn't properly give them a perspective how to stop the issue via her counselling. -
@Oktokolo I think skin color might be slightly shifted from what is going on here. But maybe more like a disability. Someone might have colorblindness. They need a high contrast color setting. If color settings are locked down, they need that changed. They will need to disclose that disability as a justification for the change.
@Fast-Nop I think it’s different from yelling at people because that’s a choice. She doesn’t have a choice, it’s an involuntary response that is like a disability. However, I do think like a disability, you generally have to disclose the disability to get accommodation. -
@jeeper Why would yelling at people be a "choice" when crying isn't? Temper control issues are exactly that, no matter in which direction.
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@Fast-Nop but what OP is describing is not a failure to control temper more like a panic attack or something like that. If she was failing to control her temper she would be voice cracking, other, nose running, unable to maintain focus. OP says it’s none of those other responses. Imagine if a male employee just got really red in the face when taking criticism, but was otherwise normal. Would you tell him to wear makeup because it is making others uncomfortable?
I get your anger analogy but it breaks down when you take into the whole context the person in OP’s story is in fact even tempered, still present in the meeting, and responds to the criticism favorably in practice. How would you feel if someone received criticism with a stern face, unexpressive? What if that person had previously had a stroke? -
@jeeper Also yelling and anger can be regarded as illness. Physical reaction. Impossible to control. There you go.
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Post this question on SE:Workplace to obtain more perspectives.
There is a lot at play here and you need to think whether you need to protect Mary, the company and yourself from any potential harm. Since this is a health issue, depending on the jurisdiction your company may open themselves up to liability if she is fired, if there is any mention of the notice given being related to her condition.
Typically if a company is at risk of running into such an issue HR gets involved, since protecting the company is their job. This can go either way though, maybe they recognize the danger and advise against termination, maybe they want to get rid of a potential risk and find a way to fire Mary without opening themselves up to liability.
Informing others of a pathological condition is Mary's job though. It is unreasonable to expect people to magically assume some medical issue in this instance. She seems to know that, as she informed you.
Inserting yourself into this issue is risky. -
Also frankly your personal opinions on whether her behavior is "okay" or not and socially incompatible or not are absolutely irrelevant.
The only thing that matters is whether she was diagnosed with a condition. If she was then it is considered pathological, period. Meaning you cannot pass it off as just "being difficult".
A company does not exist for rehabilitation, yes. That being said, her condition doesn't necessarily mean she is unable to provide value given her salary. If the team is uncomfortable with her demeanor, steps can be taken to solve this, such as explaining that this is a medical condition. This worked with OP and will most likely work with any decent human being. Pretty sure our dev team would not struggle taking her in.
The issue where Mary is going wrong however, in my view, is not explaining this behavior to the whole team. I understand it is an uncomfortable topic, but otherwise co-workers will reasonably assume she merely cannot handle criticism. -
@Fast-Nop if you have turrets I guess. Are you going to then discriminate agains someone who is crying because their turrets expresses itself differently?
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@Maer If this is the probation period, she can be fired because having a condition does not give her the unilateral right to forfeit the probation period, and you don't need any reason for firing during the probation period.
@AtuM Others preying deliberately on that, and in particular filming against her will (GDPR violation!), should warrant immediate disciplinary action from their superiors. -
@Fast-Nop you can fire for not being a good culture fit but actually citing the behavior opens up liability, at least in the US
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@jeeper Obviously, you don't cite any reason if you don't need any. Just as when declining an application. You neither give any feedback. This sucks for the applicants, but that's what the law wants.
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I've read about half the replies here and i wanted to throw in my input, so sorry if this has been covered before:
One of my coworkers had Bipolar Disorder, for which he took medication. The only reason i know this is because when he got to the company i worked with him closely on a project and he had this habit of sighing really emphatically every time that i have him critical feedback or disagreed with him.
He explained to me that it was a coping mechanism that whenever a situation brought out his negative emotions (for those that dont know, Bipolar Disorder is characterized by often severe mood swings from joy to rage or depression), he would picture a red balloon he would inflate with his breath, and that he was breathing all his negative emotions into the balloon. The balloon would then fly away and he would be ready to continue his life.
The point is that he had a reason for his weird behavior that i accepted, and that might just be what needs to happen here.
One of the people I supervise is “Mary,” a woman in her early 20s. Every time she gets critical feedback (even very mild and accompanied by praise), she turns bright red and starts crying … like, a lot. Tears streaming down her face. Other than that, though, she responds calmly and rationally. She carries a handkerchief and just mops up the tears and continues the conversation. One of the first times this happened, I asked if she was okay, and she said that it’s “just a physical response to stress” and confided that she’s getting cognitive behavioral therapy to learn to control it. Honestly, I think she’s handling the whole thing with a lot of professionalism and maturity.
I am her direct supervisor, but she also reports to two of my (male) colleagues, one of whom is a VP in my company. I recently overheard them talking about Mary, saying that her crying is uncomfortable, unprofessional, and “stupid.” Mary is a great employee, and I want to do whatever I can to protect her job and reputation within the company. Should I say something to my colleagues? Should I advise her to say something?
rant