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Nmeri17
2y

It seems to me that browsers lagging behind is the reason we've seen the JS framework boom both in recent years and ongoing, evident in what they regard as major updates. Most of the functionalities implemented in my time working on the front end are high level problems ubiquitous enough to have been solved at the browser level. Same goes for all the optimizations CSR frameworks are struggling to attain. Every CSR app genuinely feels like recreating a browser, both in UX and dev requirements. These problems exist because current browsers are analog software still accustomed to loading all content at once, no in-app state, just scroll states

The React-Vue-Angular wars of today are a direct hat-tip to the Netscape-Microsoft wars of the early years. If they can form a coalition that sets a standard for syntax, best rendering engine, natural way for user facing devs to control app state, fetch data or connect the back end, somehow render this on the server or find a workaround SEO issues on CSRs, etc, given the shared agreement on expectations for modern web software, it'll be fascinating to see such a possibility

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javascript
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  • 1
    2y
    Browsers are not lagging behind anything. They do what they are supposed to do: Enable users to browse websites.

    We are trying to force browsers into being platforms for applications that run on JS and behave and look like the applications that run on our devices. And as a result we get all this chaos and ridiculousness.
  • 0
    2y
    @Lensflare You'll be lying to yourself by pretending user expectations on the Internet are still the same as what they were when the browser was first built. Good luck engaging them with a static site

    User demands have driven businesses to keep up technology wise. The Web is far more accessible than apps and its medium of delivery is the browser. The point of the post is that the major players in the browser industry and vanilla JS are still living in the past. If they weren't, user/business expectations would be supported natively by browser vendors
  • 0
    2y
    @Nmeri17 Users don’t have demands or expectations on the browser or the internet. They have expectations and demands on the apps or websites, whatever they run on.

    Companies are trying to sell the idea of any app running perfectly well in the browser on any device.
    Users get shit instead and rightfully complain. And then the browsers get the blame?
  • 0
    2y
    @Lensflare

    > they have expectations on the websites

    *sigh

    And what is the acceptable term for all websites? You guessed it, the web /Internet. How are you able to separate site expectations from the Internet. I'm not referring to the Internet as a tech here. I think that's where the misunderstanding stems from. Internet in this context, means site UX.

    > companies trying to sell the idea of any app running perfectly fine in the browser

    So if I get you correctly, you're faulting businesses for bringing parity between native and web apps, is that it? That would be disastrous, to put it mildly. If one of them should go, it definitely should be mobile apps, with the exception of those with offline functionality. I think my first rant here was decrying the existence and pervasiveness of mobile apps.
  • 0
    2y
    The term for all websites is the world wide web.

    And that’s the point.

    #1: Many of the web apps aren’t even in the Internet, but the intranet.

    #2: As the name suggests, the web is a network of websites.

    Apps are a fundamentally different thing. They don’t belong into the web and don’t work there well.
    It’s just so tempting and convenient to host apps in the web and misuse the web UI tools to build them.
    Until you actually do it and run into all the problems. At which point you naturally start to blame the browser for not doing stuff that’s not their job.
    And then pretend like the users actually want it. No. Users want working apps.

    I’m not sure what you are trying to say with the last paragraph.
    I’m not particularly concerned about mobile apps. There is also desktop, you know. I also don’t know what you mean by private.
  • 0
    2y
    If your app or whatever you call it is perfect for the web, I have nothing against it. But don’t blame the browsers for being behind (behind what actually?) when they are not the right platform for your app.
    I mean how far should we go? What should browsers be able to do? In order to support all kinds of apps, browsers would need to become OS in their own right. And we already have OSes with apps running on them. What’s the point?
  • 1
    2y
    @Lensflare Re: behind what, actually?

    Browsers are still accustomed to `querySelector.getElementById`,when the world has since moved on to updating multiple selectors more elegantly. The API is outdated. Those event listeners have been replaced with life cycle hooks for custom elements/components. Working with the shadow dom is not mainstream. Whereas knowing bare html and vanilla JS will get you nowhere in today's world, both in dev output and as a job seeker. That is the reality, my friend. You can try to resist using claims of this not being browser responsibility but we're here already
  • 0
    2y
    @Nmeri17 sadly, yes.
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