Do all the things like ++ or -- rants, post your own rants, comment on others' rants and build your customized dev avatarSign Up
From the creators of devRant, Pipeless lets you power real-time personalized recommendations and activity feeds using a simple APILearn More
Grumm118274dThat is because you care about the work you do.
More people working should do that. It will make a workplace easier and better.
@Grumm I wish all developers had to take an oath like doctors.
The software we write changes the world in many ways. If we were to follow a code of ethics we wouldn't have things like Facebook selling our personal data or advertiser tracking.
We might even have stronger protections for tech like AI and facial recognition.
When the bossman says "do it", we are unable to say "no" because our jobs are on the line. Only way to fix that, unionize.
Is there anything like a pledge of ethics related to software development, which I can sign? I think what @sariel says is absolutely true and more devs should be more aware what they're actually doing. But I think some things in the development industry is like the discovery of atomic energy, meaning you can use things for good or for bad. Like AI...
@sariel Yes, same as the constructor building a house, it is his duty to make it straight and to make sure it doesn't fall down.
Why should a tech job be any different ?
I see this all the time with my senior colleague.
He starts a project, using some stuff we never use.
Here I am, warning him that it doesn't require our needs, we should better use this and that. (Because we already have the knowledge)
Doesn't listen, does it the way he wants, later I get a phone from him, asking for help because the installation failed due to incompatibility...
Told hem firmly (not in those words) 'the I told you so'. But I refused to help him out. He allowed that shit, so he should be the one fixing it. And if that isn't possible, he should be responsible for the result.
@BixelPitch Should I send this to the senior here ?
Especially point 8.
When asking if he reads tech books, the answer was : 'No, in the weekend I am to busy working in the garden and trimming the trees'. (But does not know how to work in windows 10 and doesn't want to learn when asked too...)
@phat-lasagna So how can you implement such pledge in a company ?
Just asking the CEO that I wish all system engineers agree with this paper ?
@Grumm try it I guess :) but I also guess he is a ignorant person when I read your few lines describing him. So he will still continue with his shit anyways. The thing is, nobody can change people. If he is not responding to your advices, you have to find a way to work with his ignorance... Or try to change teams/projects/company if everything fails. Or talk to the manager of both of you, telling him/her the his mode of operation cuts efficiency so he/she will become sensitive about this topic.
I relate to this... From both sides.
I hated it when a superior told me to do something just because. Then I became CTO.
Then you realize you don't have enough time to babysit everyone. You want something done a certain way because reasons (legitimate reasons you can't afford the time to explain to a junior) and you don't want unnecessary questioning of your choices.
Sure, that also means you take the fall if your choice fails, but that was always fine with me.
So I guess I've also been the asshole from time to time. I'm all for discussion and debate, there's a command and responsibility chain and you have to follow it, on both ends.
As to ethics, I guess I'm in a gray area. When I know something is illegal, I outright refuse. If I have doubts, always in writing from a superior/legal team.
If legal, but shady, I'd rather do it myself the least scummy way I can, because otherwise they'll get someone else to do it in a totally scummy way anyway.
@BixelPitch Well, for now I focus on my own work. The advise I give, isn't always part of my job.
Maybe I shouldn't worry about his part. But it is falling apart and just watching on the sideline isn't my style. I want to do the right think and care about it.
Sure he only has to work until 2024. Must be easy to not give a shit when you know you will not be there anymore to fix it all.
Managers doesn't care. He worked all his life in the company (more than 30y) Who am I with only 7y in the firm to tell him that he isn't doing his job right ?
Maybe quitting is an option, but the part I do is challenging and nice. By leaving, I would just give more trouble. (Struggles when working as the only dev on a project I guess)
There's never an excuse for other parties not to do their jobs.
Another thing is if actually eliciting requirements is *your* job 😂
@Grumm start with yourself. Take the pledge, apply it for some months. Document your journey and share it with your peers.
When you want others around you to change, be the leader that they need.
When a team moves forward true leaders move with it. If your lead doesn't, management will be looking towards you to provide.
Not always easy though. People can be excellent at their work and not have leadership skills, and ain't one thing wrong in that.
I kind of had leadership dumped onto me professionally, and found that it only works if you give and receive trust.
You can't work with people who don't trust you, and you don't want to work with people you can't trust.
So yeah, *definitely* be the change you want to see in the world, but it's not always easy to inspire it.