I always find it funny when people fight over certain aspects of Javascript. Like how callback hell is manageable, async functions etc

Do they forget that Javascript itself is a flaming pile of shit language to begin with? The inventor literally created the language in a week, so that should be the base line assumption on how "capable" that language will come out to be.

I find it more funny when people try to defend js because they are Stockholm syndromed.

Or people like @mostr4am who believe that just because it was impressively created in one week, it automatically makes it a great language.

@mostr4am this statement is not mutually exclusive with "it’s a flaming pile of shit language"

> "Do they forget that Javascript itself is a flaming pile of shit language"

And yet we have a bunch of web/js folks making or pretty close to making 6-figures.

If language 'beauty' really mattered, Delphi/Pascal would be the de-facto programming language.

Fight me

@Lensflare then how come when I'm typing a comment in your native Swift app, I get a solid 800ms lag per symbol? JS web apps don't have this problem.

It can't be that 80% of genuinely terrible frontend code monkeys are better than you. It's just that Swift, a new school, well-thought-out language, doesn't prevent you from making mistakes. In which case, I don't see any practical benefit over JS.

@Lensflare with the entire JS ecosystem and infrastructure at my disposal, with Node.js on the server and JS on the client, and with ChatGPT doing the heavy lifting, I'm 95% there in quality, all alone, at one tenth of the cost of a native app dev team, while making more per person bc it's just me. Users don't care about the remaining 5%.

@kiki what are you even talking about? There is no lag. And even if there was, do you really think it would be because of the language?

You js folks keep spreading the same lie about being cheaper than native. Now it‘s even 10x and not double 😂
And JS is also faster than native because native causes lags. 😂
Wow. That‘s why I can‘t take js devs serious.

@kiki oh, I want to share an example with you based on actual experience, instead of wishful thinking:

In my company where we develop apps for 3 plattforms, ios, android and web, it‘s always iOS native which is the fastest and has the highest quality with less devs. Second place is Android native.
Web and hybrid mobile crap is slowest and worst quality.

I‘m not saying it‘s because of the language. I‘m not that delusional.
I‘m just saying that, contrary to the lies of js and hybrid lovers, native does not cause double effort and cost.

@kiki your statement about my app is like if I would judge js by how shitty Teams is, for example.

Counterpoint: you can spend years developing a language and it won't come out any better. I can attest to this ;>

JS is __kind-of__ acceptable in tiny doses. It's a more dramatic form of the typical high-level problem, where something is easy to use but you can't build too much complexity without it crumbling on itself. I can attest to this too, I wrote a compiler in Perl for fuck's sake.

So what's the solution? Should we go back to micro-optimizing every last function on a per-operation basis? For systems, yes -- that is the only proper way. You can have it done right, or you can have it done fast; corporate wants growth so we'll go with fast, that is, easy in the short-term, but most assuredly an obelisk of putrefact dung in the long-term, so ultimately unsustainable which again is on-brand for corporate.

Hmmm. Now that I think about it, rioting might actually be the smart play here. Bring out the guillotine!

@Lensflare well, there is lag for me on my iPhone.

@kiki there is no lag for me on the 3 iphones and the one ipad that I tested it on.

@mostr4am actually I get it. The comparison with a religion is a good one.