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ETF gold is also just paper because it's the promise to deliver upon request - a promise that won't be kept if people actually demanded delivery.
Gov printing money is OK btw if it's in line with the growth of economy. Otherwise, you'd get deflation, which would run economy into the ground. That's also why gold isn't used anymore as basis. Plus that there is only about 20g or so per human in the world. -
@mojo2012 not all cryptocurrencies work like Bitcoin, nor are centralized like Bitcoin. If done properly, the power is in the hands of the people using the currency. And the "energy waste" is negligible compared to the real energy wastes in the world, there are many bigger problems to solve before mining becomes a real issue
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@endor cryptocurrencies have a really high power consumption, and it's growing. The more people get into it, the more energy per transaction is required.
This is not a sustainable system. -
@Root Bingo. Someone said it lmao
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You got it. And this is exactly why Bitcoin failed: it doesn’t inflate. Economies work by the flow of money. Hoarding of funds helps no one. And currencies that encourage hoarding are doomed to fail.
Also I’m not sure that’s technically correct about shares: in order to introduce new shares don’t they have to split the existing ones? -
@Root i strongly disagree. A system like in austria or finland combines the best of both worlds (socialism, capitalism). Peace through public social security (system), regulated markets (but still markets)
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@endor What crypto currency prevent somone to gain too much power (by having enough processing power)?
And no its a huge addinional energy waste, but ur right, we should definitely think about reducing wastage everywhere -
@Root capitalism kills market economy if there are no regulations. You'd end up with monopoly companies, few people having everything and the rest nothing, and then the rich hanging on lamp posts.
There are countries where the government doesn't mix in because it's too weak. "Failed states" is what we call them, and you don't want to live there. -
@Fast-Nop some even go so far calling the US a failed (or failing) state
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@Fast-Nop Capitalism. not corporate croneyism. Corruption and lack of competition are poison to capitalism. Capitalism is not about companies and beating out competition; it's about consumers having options and purchasing power. It is not possible to have these with monopolies, price fixing, "planned economies," etc.
Lit. "Who makes the best reasonably-priced lemonade? I want to buy that." The consumer is happy and the seller is happy.
Regulations are only required insofar as to protect against corruption and monopolies. (Toxic lemonade, false lemonade advertising, lemon/lemonade monopoly, etc.) The system mostly self-regulates beyond that, since e.g. awful or overpriced lemonade generally won't keep selling. -
@mojo2012 I'd ask them to objectively compare the results of their ideal system with the US. We're far from perfect, but we have the largest economy by a huge margin and have produced the majority of the technology despite having only been around for 242 years.
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@Root hmm I can only partly agree. Companies r driven by people are driven by greed. Therefore the people corrupt the system which is the main peoblem of everything mankind invented.
IF companies were demogratic entities it could work but they rnt and therefore the undermine our demogratic society. Regulation can stop that (at least a bit) - theres still curruption in our denogratic government too of course ... -
@Root the US rose bc of world war two where the former leading nations destroyed thenselves (and the economic power they had. The resulting vacuum had to be filled (even when that means destroying legal demogratic governments by force and installing dictators). The only able country were the US.
The same is happening right now btw with china in the pole position.
What is true though is that the US is by far the most significant driver in IT, but that is more based on the fact that other world regions r behind, like western europe overregulating everything, eastern europe fighting with the remnants of the soviet time, let alone other world regions which have way more fundsmental problems to fight with. -
@mojo2012 The US already had a strong economy before that, and its political policies aren't what we're talking about here 😋
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@Root true but GB was pretty close.
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@Root and what u forgot is that the US at that time was mainly driven by its own demand - the size of the country made it possible. The rise of the US and is tenporary world dominance was based on oppression and shameless exploitation (what the europeans did before although with other means)
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@react-guy it is not growing: the amount of computational power available for mining is finite, and if prices don't keep going up it becomes economically inconvenient. It is a self-balancing system.
(Also, the energy is per block, not per transaction) -
@devios1 yep, which is why currencies like Monero have introduced a small tail emission: enough to keep the system alive and offset lost coins, but still a very small inflation to avoid devaluing coins too much (<1% yearly and decreasing).
Also, new coins (the ones introduced by miners) are generated from scratch, not from existing ones. -
@mojo2012 Monero, for instance, has been actively (and successfully) fighting off Asics, in order to let cpu and gpu miners control the network. Overall, the whole ecosystem is far more decentralised, at least for now, and there's no single entity holding significantly more power than any other. There are also may small/solo miners.
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@mojo2012 You can say it's mostly due to exploitation, and perhaps even make a case for it. Factory workers went through hell. Child exploitation also happened. But both happened basically everywhere back then. Both also stopped here in the US quite awhile ago, though they're still pretty common elsewhere. Sweat shops, child labor in factories, ... yet these countries are still not prosperous.
We'll see how temporary the US economy is. With the huge influx of problems Europe is facing, I doubt we'll have much competition from anyone but China, and their economy is only really large because of the sheer number of people.
Also: the US economy being close to Great Britain's at that time is very impressive. GB had the entire British Empire to call on, while the US had only been around for 160some years. -
@Root of course it's exploitation, that's why 5% of the world population consume 25% of its resources - if everyone wanted to live like a US American, we would need 5 earths.
That's the normal imperial wealth pump from the periphery to the centre. Part of the deal is that the US "pay" their bills with the money they print themselves, and countries trying to escape the US$ are in for a rough ride.
First class vassals like Western Europe still come out at around 50% of that, so if everyone wanted to live like a Western European, we would need 2.5 earths. That's how an empire binds its vassals. -
@AndSoWeCode 😂
A communist country lagged behind? Who would have thought!
Of course the laureates, etc left. When their countrymen are fighting mud as a difficult problem, or they are being persecuted for being a member of the wrong religion, or they're barred entry into fields because they're the son of a butcher, or they see very little benefit from their hard work, they're going to leave.
Personal freedoms and an economic system that rewards you for your efforts are huge attractions. -
"This is why you will see non-inflationary assets such as Bitcoin, land, gold bars and gold ETFs, etc. continue to rise in value and certainly outpace inflation."
Bitcoin and gold have essentially zero inherent value, so they are just as useless as repositories of value as any other form of currency. Land admittedly is a finite resource with inherent value, which is probably why it has been the safest form of investment since the concept of land ownership became a thing. This post has college freshman understanding of economics written all over it. -
@catadoxa while gold is essentially useless, people have been appreciating it for millennia to the point of murder and war. It's a pretty safe bet that this will not change in foreseeable future.
Thing is just that there's not enough gold in the world (20g per capita) to make that viable in large scale. Individual investment, however, is another story. -
@AndSoWeCode stalin himself killed more/at least as many ukrainians by just starving them!
Ussr failed bc of all the corruption! And the oppression -
@AndSoWeCode no it’s a fact, stalin gave special orders - well documented - to break the ukrainians by starving them. (Book bloodlands)
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@AndSoWeCode you‘r absolutely right and I have no clue😅
A dollar or a peso is a certain amount of work stored in a piece of paper. You need to work to get them or have other people work for you. When governments print new money and push it into circulation they reduce what you were compensated with for the work you did. Essentially they are taking your wealth (spending power) away without you even realizing. It is a modestly sophisticated form of theft. When public companies issue new shares onto the market they are doing same thing by reducing the percentage of the company you own. This is why you will see non-inflationary assets such as Bitcoin, land, gold bars and gold ETFs, etc. continue to rise in value and certainly outpace inflation. It’s because people who are smart with money are fearful of holding cash and they are looking for a safe place to store it. If you are not afraid of holding substantial amounts of cash, then I suppose you don’t really understand what it is. There is a reason why they don’t teach teenagers about inflation in any country of the world. As long as the masses are focused on earning and saving fiat, governments have so much more power and control. If you remove all of the fiat from circulation, then we will revert to a barter/trading system which would substantially reduce government power, at that point they would only maintain control using physical force, which is a lot more challenging to carry out. #btc #gold #rant #av
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