i just failed a test in my coding class because i put = instead of ==. yikes i feel dumb.

Lesson learned that means

@JoshBent i guess 😔

The fuck kinda test you taking where that causes you to fail?

My professor, well the teaching assistant actually, always looked at the code and gave us credit for what we had right. Meaning we were likely to get credit, even if the problem was incorrect.

@Stuxnet my teacher has never taught before so its kinda uh, not a good grading system. the only way to get an A is if you do the extra credit, and most of your grade depends on if the code runs and due to me using the wrong symbol, it didnt run therefore i got like 2 points out of 6. (a 33%, thanks)

@Stuxnet Never was a fan of that, either your class/function fails to perform or not (automated tests running over it and giving points for each test passed) - design/code is and should be separate, it's not the job of them to babysit you in a test.

@JoshBent For a third or fourth year class, yea. But this was a freshman class. There's no point in being unnecessarily difficult on freshmen considering there's no standard of what the student should know going into the class.

@Stuxnet might've skimmed both posts too fast, he probably had more than just that wrong and therefore didn't pass, it wasn't the only mistake, though if as mentioned it is ran through tests and some major condition got fucked by it, he might as well have failed because of the condition always/never going through.

@Stuxnet it doesn't really matter what year you're in, all exams are usually ran through a chain of tests, though I am assuming that he's in college or any IT class.

@Stuxnet not to mention that a coding exam isn't in the first week and you were supposed to learn up until a certain point, which will get tested during exams.

@JoshBent actually, for some context, i’m a baby. literally a sophomore in /highschool/ and ive never coded before and neither has anyone in my class. we’re film students. and, when i fixed all the =‘s to == it ran, so no, that was my ONLY problem in it (pretty sure everyone failed except for the girl who sits next to me and cheated)

@velveteen-mars why are film students programming? and I doubt there wasn't any learning material or lectures about it? since as a film student you somehow knew some operators, even if you mixed them up.

btw depending on your language == is usually also wrong, even if it runs.

Testing like that for sure identifies typos, not necessarily knowledge. In the real world a compiler or lint checker would immediately identify the mistake to you so I don't really see the point in factoring that into the grade.

But what do I know, I'm not a professor. I'm just somebody with 15+ years of software engineering job experience.

@JoshBent it’s because the head of the film department is like oh wow, VR is becoming super popular lets give them a coding class! and its shit because everyone except me hates coding and is failing. also, he taught us some stuff before the test so we knew a bit, but the test was still pretty hard.

@JoshBent Programming classes can be electives or for a minor here in the states, but idk about for him.

And I'm still sticking with my two cents of there's no need to be unnecessarily strict in the first damn class where you're teaching from 0 knowledge standpoint.

@Stuxnet i agree! and no, its not an elective. everyone was angry that we have to take it, but there are rumors we arent having it next semester or the teacher is getting let go??

@duckWit you're assuming language, not all will raise a warning (if not most) given a =/== scenario

@velveteen-mars welp, sounds weird and irrational, not sure how that passed through any educational authority as an implementable idea.

@Stuxnet it's not about being strict, but handling any amount of students and not factoring in emotions, a computer either fails to deliver the wished result or not, that's the beauty of it.

@JoshBent my point is that a high degree of editors (the FAR majority of ones used in the professional world today) will identify that mistake for you the moment you type it. Have it as a multiple choice question on a test to gauge knowledge on that one principle. Anything else seems unnecessary for something so rudimentary to exact such a punishment in the overall grade.

@duckWit I feel you're losing track of your own point, multiple choice for testing knowledge was never a viable nor proper way of measuring knowledge in my opinion, more guessing or excluding other options.

@duckWit genuinely would love to know which editor catches a "=" vs "==" in an if condition or for loop in e.g. javascript, not as an assignment mistake outside of one.

@JoshBent does JSLint not? I'm not in a place to test but I'm almost certain it would catch that.

@duckWit can't right now either and the online jsLint fails on basic for loops already.

@JoshBent not losing track of my own point. I edited the comment you are replying to, to better clarify my perspective. You replied while I was editing, apologies.

Example:

Which tests equality?

A) if (result = true)

B) if (result == true)

C) if (result = result)

If you choose B on that test, as a professor I would know you understand the difference between the two operators. Later on the written portion of the exam, I would chalk your mistake up to a typo and not penalize you for it. I know that you know what it should have been.

@JoshBent that's how I would handle grading rudimentary principles like that.

@duckWit no need to apologize, it's alright, with your example you only proved my point, people exclude other options and then guess - by your example the professor would then somehow assume just because you guessed one time right, that you knew it? still doesn't make sense to me.

@duckWit i think that makes sense, but there was no multiple choice. the whole exam was making a loop,, so it was just coding thats its

Perhaps a better multiple choice would be:

_____________________
In the following code, what value is the variable b?

var a = 5;

var b = a == 5;

A) 5
B) true
C) null
_____________________

(but my point remains the same).

@velveteen-mars yeah that's what I'm saying. Without simultaneously testing for the basic understanding of the rudimentary principle of equality you don't know if you're punishing a typo or lack of knowledge. It's unclear, and to me that means a poor test.

@duckWit second example is more like it, though you mentioned a professor given previous results would just assume and not "punish" you for a mistake.

That's where the idea fails, there's not supposed to be any difference between person X and Y doing a mistake or even any difference at all.

That's where tests are put into place for a reason, not only does it allow to check any amount of submissions automatically, but also the result is purely based on what you did right or wrong, we can't really call it "typos" either btw, because either you type it twice or not, it's not a mistyped variable.

@JoshBent fair point. Have enough versions of the question to eliminate guessing. But odds are high that if you don't know that principle, the rest of your code will be bad too. An error so basic is too big a smell to hide, imo.

@duckWit that's why there's multiple tests running through and you could still get some points, but if you fucked up a major part of the function, it won't ever get the desired result and that's simply a failed, next time you'll check twice or learn from it, emotions never have had place in any part of education or evaluation, once you're a certain age.

@JoshBent that's a fair point too regarding testing everybody/everything equally etc. My biggest beef is that there's no clear way of gauging understanding with that approach, which is what tests should be doing.

@duckWit there's no perfect exams or interview tests, it always has some down-side to it, you just choose from what has the most advantages and in coding exams it's simply developing proper chain of tests and having it run through everybodys submission.

@JoshBent but yes, I'll concede. I'm not a professor. I'll just go on thinking that if I was I would do it differently and be the best professor that ever lived and everybody else sucks! Haha. ;)

Beware

@duckWit in which language?