In may this year, the new mass surveillance law in the Netherlands went into effect. Loads of people were against it with the arguments that everyone's privacy was not protected well enough, data gathered through dragnet surveillance might not be discarded quickly after the target data was filtered out and the dragnet surveillance wouldn't be that 'targeted'.

They were put into the 'paranoid' corner mostly and to assure enough support/votes, it was promised that:
- dragnet surveillance would be done as targeted as possible.
- target data would be filtered out soon and data of non-targets would be discarded automatically by systems designed for that (which would have to be out in place ASAP).
- data of non-targets would NOT be analyzed as that would be a major privacy breach.
- dragnet surveillance could only be done if enough proof would be delivered and if the urgency could justify the actions.

A month ago it was already revealed that there has been a relatively (in this context) high amount of cases where special measures (dragnet surveillance/non-target hacking to get to targets and so on) were used when/while there wasn't enough proof or the measures did not justify the urgency.
Privacy activists were anything but happy but this could be improved and the guarantees which were given to assure privacy of innocent people were in place according to the politicians... we'll see how this goes..

Today it was revealed that:
-there are no systems in place for automatic data discarding (data of innocent civilians) and there are hardly any protocols for how to handle not-needed or non-target data.
- in real life, the 'as targeted dragnet as possible' isn't really as targeted as possible. There aren't any/much checks in place to assure that the dragnets are aimed as targeted as possible.
- there isn't really any data filtering which filters out non-targers, mostly everything is analyzed.

Dear Dutch government and intelligence agency; not so kindly to fuck yourself.

Hardly any of the promised checks which made that this law could go through are actually in place (yet).

Fuck you.

  • 18
    Interesting. But I basically expected this to happen in the first place.
  • 17
    @ewpratten Me too, just very angry that I, too badly, can pull the "I told you so" again 😤
  • 19
    @ewpratten I did fucking enjoy the face of the minister who pushed this through like her life depended on it when she was asked for a comment on this; she hArdly knew what to say or what face to pull 😆
  • 2
    I don't get why they're are surprised, it was pretty much obvious this was going to happen.
  • 12
    Same thing happened in Sweden.

    It starts with "Of course we're only going to target X and never ever ever ever use it for anything other than that. That's a government promise! 😬".

    Well, fuck. One small infringement at a time and the scope is way different. Just keep the scandals small enough we'll boil those frogs, no problemo.

    People don't seem to care much. As long as Facebook is working and the beggars are not within smelling-range everything is A-OK. Sucks to be in the minority when you really care about something.
  • 11
    When do governments ever do what they promise? And when do they do anything well?

    Right, taxes.
  • 8
    Happened long time ago in Poland.

    Citizens should be able to sue politicians and gov officials and they should be prosecuted for such lies.
  • 2
    Everyone knew this is exactly what will happen. I see no reason why anyone should be surprised.

    Also, give a few more years and you'll probably see on the news that some guy hacked things around and all that data is now on black market for sale. And guess who will take blame for that once? ... Thats right. NO ONE!
  • 2
    They can do it, because normal people will think that making such "target algorithms" is super hard and high tech. But it totally isn't. A 5 year old could do this with 99% accuracy with some cool shiny google libraries.

    Of course if we are talking about CCTV's. If it's just about access to your mail, then simply hack only this one fucking guy...
  • 2
    So I'll be seeing you on i2p or a hidden service later?
  • 3
    @ilPinguino "Same place, same time, my dude"
  • 5
    Based on all previous government IT projects here in the Netherlands I think they pushed alot of money into these "systems" but nobody made anything.

    Or all the money went into traffic signs :D
  • 1
    I don't know what you expected, really...

    Also what exactly is 'targeted dragnet'? That is really just about the opposite of what dragnet means...
  • 2
    @Traser sadly, that seems likely.
  • 3
    @fgysin it only needs to fool the idiots because nobody listens to the smart people anyway.
  • 1
    @linuxxx you should know this too: https://nu.nl/tech/5611178/...
    Sounds like an amazing idea
  • 2
    @Jifuna sounds good. let's hope they make something out of it
  • 0
    @Jifuna what is the article about?
  • 3
    @CoffeeNcode @mt3o Sorry, that was sarcastic. They are building a general database for all personal details. I think this is a horrible idea. If someone wants to have all personal data they just hack this place. The dutch government doesn't have a good record with IT projects for example they once made a website for 1 billion euros.
  • 3
    Give people power, and they will exploit it.
    Good, that they added methods to stall/hinder such exploits. Bad, that those methods didn't get installed.

    I guess there were companies involved implementing that stuff. And these stall as much as they can, so they can squeeze more money out of it.
    Greed is the number one reason for 'I don't give a fuck'...
  • 1
    Australia is one step ahead of you. Not only is this one of the only issues where all sides of government agree (to the detriment and frustration of the supposedly represented population), they are on the fast track to outlaw secure encryption and force companies to include vulnerabilities in their products to assist the government. With all the usual checks and balances you just described. What the fuck is wrong with these people...
  • 2
    @nathanchere 1984 - we are behind schedule. But we work on it!
  • 1
    @Yamakuzure If you haven't done so recently, try reading Animal Farm. Preferably an edition with Orwell's "Freedom of the Press" prelude. Or even just the prelude. Not that the book doesn't have its points to make, but the prelude deserves so much more attention. It's mind boggling how relevant his insights are over half a century later, especially when you consider his self confessed leaning heavily towards "the left" at the time.
  • 2
    @Yamakuzure "raugh in Chinese"
  • 2
    @nathanchere "1984" and "Animal Farm" were both mandatory reads at school here. 😉
    They still fit, though. Some "animals" are still *more equal*...
  • 1
    @Yamakuzure again not so much the book itself as the "Freedom of the Press" prelude. We Animal Farm in school too but didn't include that 😔
  • 1
    @nathanchere Guess why they don't teach that at school. Or Orwell in general? Or Macchiavelli, Adam Smith or generally anyone else that encourages people to think...
  • 5
    @Jifuna @CoffeeNcode It sounds good enough but for one, I don't really trust any government based IT system and two, this could force people into having a government linked online identity which is something that isn't available for everyone and again; I don't trust government based IT systems. In this case that has nothing to do with privacy but solely with the fact that they're not the best in securing their systems. (come on, the "belastingdienst" has 600 freaking IT systems which are poorly linked together and without any form of logging or access control-
  • 2
    @Jifuna Sorry! I read the comment about being sarcastic a little too late 😅
  • 2
    @linuxxx I hereby dub what you did a subRant ;)
  • 0
    these are the times resistance becomes duty. if everyone would raise their voice applying pressure to the politicians, not using or buying related products and teaching the non-techies about the thrift to a mass surveillance state such laws maybe wouldn't go through.

    too bad the standard of living here in Europe is too high so most people value their goodies more than their principles, are just plain too dumb to realize the threat or too lazy to stand their ground.

    "oh, I know they track me, use me as a product, sell my data and probably a child died somewhere producing this, but that shiny 1200$ phone is just too handsome"
  • 1
    @4h4b honestly, I admit becoming weak from time to time myself and not act as consequent is I should and I think its a shame. but sometimes I'm just so tired of always going against the grain. can somebody relate?
  • 1
    @4h4b sadly, I can relate very much.
  • 3
    @4h4b And then there is the occasional "I-Don't-Have-Anything-To-Hide-Anyway"-shrug.

    I don't have anything to hide either. Much of my life is online, fully voluntarily. And that's the crux, I have chosen to make stuff public and accessible.

    Surveillance "just-in-case" takes this choice off me, and I do not like it.
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