This is yet another rant about php.

But I'll put my hands on first: I'm less than a junior and I'm looking for a backend language to learn.
So far I've been looking at php with Symfony because it's been used where I work.

Is it my impression or Symfony somehow overcomplicates everything? Like I don't know, for any stupid thing I get stucked (like yesterday, spent two hours on a circular reference problem with serialization).

Also, I don't like it's documentation. I am a book person, meaning that I need pages of text explaining how the framework (or whatever) works in a precise order.

Symfony's docs are like a graph: you often have no idea where you are or "what comes next".

Also, I feel like every page makes you just copy-paste everything without explaining very much what's happening under the hood.

I know there is a cookbook, but it's pretty outdated (like it's at version 3 or 2.7, I don't remember).

Is it just me? Do other Symfony developers experienced the same?

  • 2
    I do agree that some things are vague, I once spent 4 hours to figure out a circular serialization issue just like you. After that it made sense why my server crashed with a simple var_dump($person);

    I learned Symfony by working on an existing project, but whenever I start my own project I usually copy paste most of the config since I find it hard to fine otherwise

    Also, validators and constraints had me in a documentation loop

    I still love the dependency injection capabilities etc.
  • 1
    Never tried Symfony, but PHP itself can be quite the mess. During my last days of PHP I used Laravel a lot. It simplifies things, though as with any framework there is a level of abstraction that you have to get by with.
  • 1
    @alexbrooklyn Nothing to say about DI. It works, and it works great. Same for general performance. But still, I'm thinking to ignore Sf and do something else 😂
  • 2
    @ScriptCoded agreed, luckily Symfony provides filter, filesystem and finder classes that abstract the horrible php functions away
  • 1
    @alexbrooklyn Seems nice, but I'm afraid I've left PHP behind me for the most part. Though if ever have to start i new PHP project I'll look into it for sure.
  • 1
    When I was young, I were really into web development, picked up front end at first, then backend with PHP and I felt like some kind of magician, in the recent years I find myself drifting farther and farther away from PHP, especialy after learning more about C++, C# and Java, I can't shit on PHP, because that's what made me a programmer, now I rather choose working on front end till I pass out that working with PHP backend.

    I haven't really dwelved into symfony either so can't say anything about that. But from experience with laravel documentation, I can say even though it's well documented, it just gives examples like you said, just copy that, try how it works, then try to think how to implement it however you want to use it and that takes time, it's all trial and error.
  • 0
    I’m amazed you are a ‘book person’. I find making projects when learning from scratch really helps me!
  • 1
    People make things complex.

    That should sum up all programming language-related issues right there.
  • 0
    @dmoa Me too, but when I face a problem I prefer having some paper that explains things in detail. Sone documentations are detailed enough, other just are not.
  • 0
    @SHA-16384 that's right, but some explanation of complexity would be a good thing
  • 1
    @EDWCode I will try harder... Thanks for the advice man
  • 0
    Maybe you could look into Laravel?
    It relies on Symfony quite a bit without being so hard to learn.
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