While I fucking hate front end and app development, I also hate that I'm so fucking dependant on them for the development of services and such.

Right now I'm developing a suite of services with a mate and while the backend and security (+linux servers) are something I'm good at, I find it hard sometimes to continue without being able to see my API's in action through apps and good looking interfaces.

My mate is currently handling that part but he has way less time than I do and thus I sometimes have to create interfaces to even just be able to see how my shit would work irl.

I can't fucking stand this and it sometimes entirely drains my motivation but there's also no fucking way in hell that I'll dive into frontend and/or app development.

Fucking hell.

Ah snap. Well any particular reason as to why you dislike it so much? The more you fight it the harder it will be man. I would recommend going above and beyond just learning things to survive front end. It would make it more bearable

@AleCx04 I've tried it over and over again but it's as simple that I have about literally 0 interest in it.
And I just can't find the damn motivation for something when I'm not interested in it at all 😬

Design an app that uses a gui that makes it easier to design backend apps. Frontend experience that might be bearable. Also make the core app command line and the frontend just calls command line to execute the backend. Then you can use it completely from your scripts when you just cannot "frontend" today.

I have the same issue with things. I lose interest I get zero motivation.

How hard is frontend? I guess first time is the hardest but just pick a webapp library and a UI components library for like textboxes and buttons and ur done?

The thing I hated about web components was making them pretty but that was maybe 10yrs ago. Now you don't use <input class=... type="button"/> and all the css crap to get it to align n size nicely... but <Button>. Just need to learn a framework.

@billgates Very fucking hard and not interesting to me 😬

@linuxxx really... Well ever since I started coding I did the full stack since I never had partners... and if I just need an app to work just dragged the components to a WinForm and double clicked to add some logic.

Only diff now I guess for webapps is you need more wiring (MVC) between the service and UI layer but once you build one project I think you can just use it as a template for the next and just change the service part.

Probably why though I prefer WPF apps, cuz I'm just used to it now. Tried learning React but I had no actual reason to learn it.

I did learn Android before but for mobile apps, u gotta stay up to date with all the changes with each OS version and I lost interest in keeping up since I only made 1 app that didn't sell so not worth my time. I did learn a bit of ReactNative though (1wk) and that's possibly still an option for me if I ever need a mobile app I can't just download... But yes drifting off topic.

But I guess maybe it's just me... Getting other ppl to do things is harder than just doing it myself...

Maybe I'm in the older generation but I remember a long time ago I think I read some interview with famous older dev that said something like: "back in my days, I had to do everything to build my apps, these days you got libraries that other people built".

@linuxxx ah man I sympathize, I'm totally a backend guy and always dread having to do frontend.

My solution till now has been to go as raw and low level as possible (qt, raw html+css avoiding js unless absolutely necessary,no frameworks) and try to make the simplest UIs that get the job done and then just try to make that sort of presentable. I go for a minimal aesthetic as much out of necessity as preference :p I'm totally cool with my app being a bunch of TextViews and some buttons, it can look fairly decent actually.

I have a bunch of colour schemes and font combos that I really like (like gruvbox + Segoe UI + Georgia) and I use them everywhere.

This actually makes my UIs really clean and simple, which is a nice side effect. Also, fast.

dude, just use vue-cli + bulma

hell I'll even offer you consulting for free on them

@jesustricks why Vue instead of react? And is there a ReactNative-like framework for it so I can just use it for everything?

Css is the devil

And this is how full stack devs are formed.

You usually either come from a time you did it all anyway, or get frustrated waiting on people to do it for you, and just dive in and get it done.

@linuxxx is it just the lack of interest stopping you from grabbing a css lib and jumping in, or the frustration of wanting things to look "nice" - or the epic madness JS can be to ones brain at times?

lol, write tests for the backend, make them follow real life usage and it'll satisfy that urge.

Can't understand the hate. Tools for the trade and answers to problems are what we provide.

Ok, its just me as I have been a fullstack dev+consultant for around 15 years and have been involved in everything from infra to project management and customer experience management and I love this.

But hey, I am a sort of a on demand specializing generalist/chameleon that can do anything.