The fact python is mainstream and attracts most juniors with just high salary expectations doesn't means that python is that bad.
Im not in love with python, but ruby is much worse in all the weak points of py and no one cares.
Fuck ruby and it's eval culture xs

Don't tell @root that

Who the fuck uses eval in any language?
Like seriously.

@M1sf3t eval() in any language is asking for problems.

You only ever use it in a closed of piece of code you wrote your self and know exactly how to interact with what it's doing, it will execute in backend languages linux/windows commands or for front end, execute anything you want in a browser.

It's like the holy grail of what not to do unless you absolutely have to and you control the commands going into it very carefully.

@sebach1 I'd still like an explanation of your "fuck ruby and its eval culture" allegation.

I have quite literally never seen `eval` used anywhere in Ruby projects, nor seen anything encouraging its use.

I have seen the backtick notation (which executes shell commands) a few times, but those were for running a hardcoded ping command, or as part of an installer (e.g. `wget`). I have never ever seen either of these use user input. (And if I did, you can be sure I would have a screaming match with whichever idiot wrote it.)

literally never seen anyone use eval on any of the ruby code I have seen. And I have seen quite a bit of it, not as much as @Root, but really want to try and understand where this is coming from sonce if there is one thing that I can say from Ruby devs is that community best practices are enforced even waaay the fuck more than Python.

Take a large rails codebase, and compare it to the royal fuckery people do in flask, now watch what they manage to do do break django. Now lets look at the weird bs pseudo devs with a math background do on jupyter labs/notebook. yup, shit gets crazy man, there are fuckeries on all other languages.

@Root Well, I confess that I'm a bit biased for the horrible Ruby codebase I was working on.

On the other side, I know that those dirty things aren't on serious Ruby projects but, for me, the quality of a language is measured based on the worst cases, not the best ones (like algo complexity). How much a junior dev can do shitty things?

And there is my problem with Ruby: it includes batteries on dirty things (maybe not Ruby per-se, but it's frameworks and libs mostly do, that's why I said culture). It makes easy to do everything, which is beautiful, but that's including the undesired parts of the lang.

Going back to the example, Rails, for example, includes batteries on doing weird things with strings, like the constantize method.

p.s. my English is a shame, I'm trying my best

Anyways, I don't hate Ruby. It's beautiful.

The post is Python tagged, my rant is about why hating py so much when Ruby performs worse in most cases?

@sebach1 pick any language, a junior can do a bazillion things wrong and the damn thing will still compile.

Languages aren't determined as "bad" by their worst features, devs are determined as shit devs for using these features and not knowing the problems associated with it.

Python in comparison would be one of the worst languages in existence based on you're definition of a bad language.

@C0D4 Agree in part.
I think the avg of those bad cases achieves how bad a lang is.

In Python you can do very silly things (I'm not python lover omg) but, in my opinion, the avg junior performs better on python than on ruby.

There are more juniors on Python, of course, is the "lang of the future and dollars", but imagine the scenario in which Ruby occupies that role... it could be insane.

@sebach1 🤦‍♂️

If the avg junior started with C/C++ would we be having the same discussion?

How about java/c#/php?

Python has gained popularity out of being close to pseudo code and easy to pick up for AI/ML and any other buzzword you want to throw around and to get "working", this doesn't demonstrate how bad a language is as it's up to the people teaching, creating training content, and those dumb fucks who create piss poor YouTube videos on how to do things in the least optimised ways possible.

I'm not defending ruby, I don't use it very often, but I'm just trying to show, that every language has its issues, and the more juniors in programming you get using a single language, the more obvious it becomes there is issues as every man, women, dog and robotic dick has to write a freaking uneducated article about it.

@C0D4 Yes, I understand that's why all are blaming the lang. That's the initial sentence on the post. "The fact python is mainstream and attracts most juniors doesn't mean that it is the worst lang ever".

Every time a language becomes mainstream, the community ends up hating it instead of hating its users. I think the perspective is wrong. I know that's how the communities think, but I don't like it.

For math stuff, for example (ignore ML, just like a bashing lang for doing sth related to the field) is the best.
Ruby is not the best at nothing in my opinion.

Those langs u named can be very ugly if on juniors hands, but more because it's purpose is not to have a clean syntax than because of the language itself.
Ruby and Python both share this concern.