26
lolcube
40d

Voting feels like shit.

Seriously. Why? Because I have to vote for parties and representatives that might have one interest in common with me but go against my points of view almost all of the time. "We'll introduce a freedom of information act and legalize weed for better drug policy and youth protection!" -- WOW Great I'll vote for yo .. " ...and we'll also come to your home kill your dog, rape your family and shit in your back yard." -- oh f*** WHY? why do I have to live in a system were I am constantly forced to trade shit for even worse shit? Why can't I vote for policies or at least some kind of 'single' - issue representative?

I know that solving this problem is not easy and I do not claim to have the magical solution. "Not voting is even worse" sure but I am getting so fucking tired of it. It doesn't feel like progression and it sure as hell does not feel like it matters because in the end of the day you are just voting for the party that's at least going to use lube when raping you. I hate these ad hominem politics where we don't discuss the ideas but the people who represent them. I honestly don't give a fuck about who you are, if you're gay, married, or are left-wing, right-wing, conservative or liberal, in the end its about finding a good solution for everyone and not about the people implementing it. I don't care about politicians private lifes or worldviews (in terms of ideals, morals, religion etc.) , I care about finding the solutions to problems and having a wide array of opinions in order to discuss ideas and to find a valid and good way to go forward. "you can't agree with that person at all, because he's evil", yeah you know what? I don't care. It's about the ideas, arguments, discussions and solutions, not about the people who discuss them.

"I made a discovery today. I found a computer. Wait a second, this is cool. It does what I want it to. If it makes a mistake, it's because I
screwed it up. Not because it doesn't like me...
Or feels threatened by me...
Or thinks I'm a smart ass...
Or doesn't like teaching and shouldn't be here...
Damn kid. All he does is play games. They're all alike."

Comments
  • 14
    just imagine a coding project with the same system: "we can't merge that, i've heard the author is right wing"
  • 6
    Yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes
  • 1
  • 2
    @SevenDeadlyBugs Oh sorry won't make that mistake again.
  • 9
    @lolcube Unfortunately that political dev shit is starting to happen. Remember the CoC fiascos that ban contributors or block their patches because of things they've ostensibly said, have not said, or even things they stand for?
  • 9
    So I am planning to return to my native country in a few years and then have this idea to educate people more about politics. Basically, just build a very UX friendly website with all politicians listed, and then each containing aggregated articles about them, votes for policies they agreed/disagreed with, interviews... that kind of stuff. Thing is all this information is accessible freely online, problem is it’s really hard to find, especially information in official government website. All this with hopes that people actually could use it to make more careful decisions, but still don’t think it would solve problem as a whole..
  • 5
    @Root OH FUCK YES I DO. I was so angry. I thought that community had some people who were a little bit more intelligent than that.... I want back to the days of phrack. Where it didn't matter who you were but what you do. I could be wrong though... because that was pre - me. (19) I went into IT for exactly that reason. I read all those old phrack magazines and BBS texts advocating for ideas and not people. I think reading the mentors texts did a lot for me because that was exactly how i felt. It was that hackers mentality that idea of starting a new era where ideas and facts ruled over feelings.
  • 5
    @lolcube @SevenDeadlyBugs

    While technically against the blanket ban on politics, @lolcube's rant is acceptable because it isn't polarizing: it complains about a very real problem without alienating anyone. It's positive, or at least helpful.

    @SevenDeadlyBugs' comment about politics is not for the same reason: it's polarizing because it complains about a specific political ideology/group/person. It's negative and alienates people, and makes the platform less enjoyable.
  • 4
    @Root Thats why one of the reasons i like to insult people with racial slurs, its always fun to see how people starts to cry when a random nobody like me says something mean, imagine wanting approval for everyone in the entire world to feel good about yourself.

    I like how adults teach kids to ignore this kind of shit, but when the adults themselves getting in the same situation they usually starts to bitch them selves.

    And thats one of the reasons i dont care about the humanity that much anyone.
  • 3
    @lolcube Yes!

    Feelings and people are more or less irrelevant. What matters is what you can do, how you can improve things, problems you can solve, how you can help, etc. That is what everyone should focus on!
  • 7
    Also, I think people shouldn't automatically be hated for stating their ideas or views even if those views are "bad". There shouldn't be a single idea that isn't allowed to be discussed even if it is something that most people don't agree upon.
  • 2
    @lolcube Agreed yet again. 😊
  • 3
    @Root YES. Maybe there is a way to go away from this idea of representing and including everyone but instead just 'excluding' everyone. With excluding meaning excluding their personal identity but not their skill, ideas or contributions. Kind of taking those variables of skin color, political stance (ofc excluding politics itself) etc. out of the equation. And to be honest: I even think that was their goal but instead they accomplished the opposite.
  • 2
  • 5
    @lolcube And I also think that is why anonymity is so important for so many things even when you don't have to hide something. Because even the people trying to be as neutral to those things as possible are still that: people. Not having the information in the first place is just something that creates an environment for more neutral discussions of ideas.
  • 3
    @lolcube I already see i like you a lot, if i wasnt about to go to bed, i would had joined in and pointed out my problem with the current state of our "democracy". Maybe tomorrow i guess.
  • 1
    @Frederick haha :D go to bed. Politics won't change over night anyways.
  • 1
    we need a new, moderate, antifederalist party focused on passing voter proposition laws.

    I've been plenty mad for a long time that people I don't like, people I don't agree with, who live in a different state than I, needlessly have to live under laws they didnt vote for, even if I did.

    And I think theres plenty of other people mad about this.

    We need a party thats damn near *militant* about "live and let live."

    A party that says "Im gonna vote for the laws that work best for my family here in my home state and I believe that all of you, my fellow Americans, are smart enough and wise enough to decide whats best for you in YOUR own home states!"
  • 2
    @Wisecrack I think that having parties is a problem in the first place because they bundle too many ideas into one big package. It is a solution that is too simple for the problem it tries to solve. Also: i live in Austria

    Edit: also I think there are issues that need to be implemented no matter what. (Constitutions do make sense imho)
  • 3
    > in the end its about finding a

    > good solution for everyone

    FX [ Nods in agreement. ]

    > Politics are actually not sth you

    > supposed to rant about in devrant

    > (it’s actually in rules)

    Ah yes, create the worlds best debating platform, but stop folk from discussing the worlds most important issues. :-)

    Politics interests me.

    You know, I got voted into office once !

    I only found out about the whole thing the day before the voting was due to take place, and I found out that year, no one was standing for office..

    So..

    I put myself forward, voted for myself the next day, and got elected by one vote !

    So, don't underestimate voter apathy :-)
  • 4
    @lolcube The scenario you gave about merging from a right wing author reminds me of the Linux CoC debacle.
  • 2
  • 1
    @Nanos haha :D
  • 3
    The problem with democracy is...

    Everyone votes for their best interests.

    It doesn't matter if the policy is any good for everyone else, the planet, etc.

    If group A get free money, and group A vote more than group B (Even if group B is bigger in numbers..), then group A wins !

    I think if you want to solve politics, you are better off going back to the old way of having Kings & Queens who decide what is best. (After hopefully listening to the people tell them what they want..)

    And of course, listening to their advisors. :-)

    Unless anyone has a better solution ?
  • 1
    @lolcube well think of the idea of a new party as an *organizing* structure not as a package pf opinions. same word, new approach. package new ideas in the form of the familiar.
  • 3
    @Nanos Uff I heavily disagree but I really have to go and work now. I might answer this later.
  • 3
    I also have experience of running for office against other candidates.

    Vote for me and I'll put up taxes to pay for a giant wall to protect the village from the next tsunami..

    Whilst my opponent said:

    Vote for him and he will reduce taxes, and not build a wall..

    Naturally, more folk voted for him than for me !

    A few years later, many died because no one built that wall..
  • 3
    Meanwhile, this happens in the another place.

    https://youtube.com/watch/...

    > Japan's village wall defied tsunami

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    ---

    2011 tsunami

    The village was spared from the devastation brought to other coastal communities following the 2011 Tōhoku earthquake and tsunami thanks to a 15.5-metre (51 ft) floodgate that protected the town. The floodgate was built between 1972 and 1984 at a cost of ¥3.56 billion (approximately US$30 million in 2011) under the administration of Kotoku Wamura, the village mayor from 1947 to 1987. Initially derided as a waste of public funds, the floodgate protected the village and the inner cove from the worst of the tsunami waves.[8] After the 2011 tsunami, the villagers gave thanks at Wamura's grave. The village's only casualty was one missing person who went to inspect his boat in the fishing port, located outside of the wall's protection, immediately after the earthquake.[8]

    ---
  • 2
    @Wisecrack

    Trouble with starting a new party I found was finding anyone else who wasn't a complete idiot !

    A little easier if you aim for a global organisation..

    But then, you end up with just a handful of folk to solve all the worlds problems..
  • 2
    @Nanos Rules4Rulers: https://youtube.com/watch/...

    Edit: I think you want to be the next Atatürk:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
  • 2
    I've also tried technocracy..

    That didn't work as well as you might imagine. :-)

    Basically, its fine, unless you disagree with whoever is in charge of the group, then it doesn't matter if you are more of an expert in your field of expertise, than they are of yours, they will throw you out !

    And even if you get into politics, its actually quite difficult to get your solutions actioned, and not so watered down as to not be at all effective..
  • 4
    You know what grinds my gears, its when 80% of local people vote one way, but its reported in the media that they voted the other way !
  • 1
    @lolcube

    > I heavily disagree

    I like disagreements, since we can often learn the most from the exchange of information regarding our reasons why.
  • 1
    @lolcube

    I notice such advice also applies to marriage. :-)
  • 1
    I'm reminded where I am, we get to vote on things.

    Parties get voted in, they promise to do X and Y.

    And, they don't..

    Then, next election, they promise to do X and Y again..

    We vote them in again..

    They don't do what they promised..

    Repeat for 50 years..

    I think a better solution is needed !

    But what.. ?
  • 1
    @Nanos anarchism
  • 1
    I find these days, not being super rich, or having much influence, that the best I can do is nudge things a little here and there:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    I'm not sure if I went into politics if I could really deliver the things the people want.

    You might ask, what do the people want..

    Well, I know one thing the people want !

    Free electricity !

    Rather than prices going up 25% a year..

    It is entirely possible to do where we are, but with so many fingers in so many pies, those fingers don't want to stop making profits..

    If the people banded together, they could form their own profit sharing cooperative and build a power station.

    But there isn't the collective will to do so..

    So, it comes down to what one person, or a handful of people could to do change things..

    I hear its very difficult to get things changed via the political route..

    I find myself, I could change 1/3 of things with a great effort, and exploiting loopholes..
  • 1
    @molaram

    What is anarchism ?

    Examples welcomed. :-)

    Especially ones related to electric power stations.
  • 2
    Well, the first party sounds very promising if you don't have a dog, a family and a backyard. Where do I vote? :P
  • 1
    @lolcube

    > bundle too many ideas into one big package.

    I'm reminded of someone who asked me advice on what their ideas should be, since they was running for local town office.

    I said, decide on one policy only, and run with that.

    I suggested the key policy everyone would vote for would be free car parking..

    They didn't choose that, and instead went for 'world peace and a million and one other things'..

    They didn't win the vote.

    Sadly I never did get to hear what their opponents policies was, but they probably didn't include free parking..
  • 1
    @Nanos read the wikipedia pages on anarchism and flavors, maybe le guin’s the dispossessed for an example
  • 3
    If you choose to take the side of any political party or any religion, you're simply a worthless liar, an unloyal traitor, and an unintelligent fool.

    Because the rules set forth will not be followed accordingly, excuses will be made, and other people will now be pointed at as an excuse for your inadequacies.

    You have cheered the deaths of your enemies, along with the slow starvation and suffering of those who cannot obtain or provide what you want.
  • 1
    @Nanos we could just rescind laws in places like florida that say the electric ompany dorsnt habe to pay youwhen your solar panels feed into the electric grid.
  • 3
    @Hypergeek I disagree. I have seen the very bottom of despair in my lifetime, mine and others, many times. And what I can tell you is this: there is hope, always, not this bs "hope and change" sloganeering of the left, nor the cynical "maga" of the right, all perhaps well meaning phrases, but *real* hope.

    And it starts with new beginnings, with giving people *real* and *meaningful* choices, choices that matter to them individually.

    It is an easy time to despair. But I reject despair, and so should you.

    In the face of disarray, the fake "unity" of wallstreets politicalpuppets, we are individually and together, still capable of much more.

    You'll never convince me otherwise.

    You have nothing to lose my believing because belief is the beginning of all great things.

    And we have nothing to lose by trying, except maybe looking a little bit foolish and having a good story to tell our families one day.
  • 2
    Where I am, we have the illusion of democracy, but in fact its a dictatorship..

    As such, we are kept poor, so we never become rich enough to be a threat to those in power.

    Not that I have anything in particular against dictatorships, since I notice a lot of countries that are like that, are run a lot better for the citizens than a democratic country !

    This became apparent in college when everyone was from a different country and we all gave our experiences, which rather shocked the tutor who expected everyone to hate their dictatorship country and love the democratic ones..

    Since then of course, some dictatorship countries have become democracies, where the price of petrol has sky rocketed..
  • 2
    I'm quite pleased to see finance becoming democratic in a way with crowd funding. (Though at its core, its dictatorship based !)

    And 3D printing, democratising manufacturing..

    If only we could 3D print power stations !

    And land to put them on..
  • 2
    @Wisecrack

    I'm reminded where I am, you aren't allowed enough land to put enough solar panels on to power your house..

    Plus there are a lot of regulations on where they can be placed too !

    I have suggested the idea of a local solar farm, and whilst some folk like the idea, where does one get the millions it will cost to build it..
  • 1
    One of the reasons I'm keen on earth sheltered housing, so it can be insulated enough that you don't need a lot of energy to keep warm / cool.

    And then you might manage with just a little bit of land and some solar panels on it..

    At the moment, earth sheltered homes are not legal here.
  • 1
    @Nanos you keep talking about your current country but never say from where. If you dont mind being asked, what country do you currently call home?
  • 1
    @Wisecrack

    I can't say.

    Imagine living in NK and talking about the place, you'd end up with bits of you bring sprinkled over a field !
  • 1
    @Nanos its the uk or canada isnt it?

    Im right, aren't I?
  • 2
    @Wisecrack

    Imagine someplace worse than NK !
  • 1
    @Nanos I dont speak mandarin, saudi arabian, eastern european, or the five billion dialects of african.
  • 4
    As much flai as I get for it, I protest vote.

    The systems are clearly built to keep the same groups in power.

    People tell me "well then your wasting your vote", I say "you clearly don't know what this system is for" the fact protest votes are counted because they're a legitimate action just proves my point ; if you vote "strategically" then you are the people working around the politicians, its supposed to be the other way around.
  • 2
    Hey, just interjecting a small fantasy here.

    What if an 'objectively benevolent' A.I. had ultimate power in a country?

    I'm intrigued by this idea thanks to shows like Person of Interest and I'm really curious how an A.I.-controlled state would operate, given that such an A.I. can be made without being influenced by the political opinions of its creator and it only bases its actions on logic and reason.
  • 3
    Well since we have this thread I can just take the time and open my support for absolute monarchy, something that is a bit harder to do well if your country doesn't still have a royal family tho
  • 2
    @matt-jd

    > absolute monarchy, something that

    > is a bit harder to do well if your country

    > doesn't still have a royal family tho

    Wasn't the first monarch's simply the first folk to gain power ?

    As such, anyone could declare themselves royalty, if they can seize power..

    FX [ Hides his aristocratic hereditary.. ]
  • 1
    @alexbrooklyn

    I reckon logic and reason would indicate that getting rid of useless people was in everyone else's benefit..
  • 2
    @Nanos well yes technically one could but I believe that it would be much more difficult for a non established royal family without the history and people support to make it working well. However our currently royal family was once elected with broad people support and from the old(dying without and heir) Royal family. Thus leading to a successful monarchy so as long as there is a support in the people I suppose
  • 3
    @matt-jd

    Seeing how folk can go from nobody to celebrity status in such a short time period, it might not take a new royalty that long to establish itself with the people.

    My guess is if your aims match a large number of things your people want, you will be popular.

    Though I suspect people will be more inclined towards you if you have a family history of success..

    Reminds me of:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    So, being rich is probably a good start.

    I've noticed with many groups, if the leader is rich, folk are much more likely to follow them, than if they are poor.

    Even if two leaders say the same thing !

    I guess that is one reason why folk like to appear richer than they actually are.
  • 2
    @Nanos I'll read that one later(firewall issues)

    It does make sense as being rich or at least looking like it would imply some form of success. In terms of royal families I'd say its beneficial that they are rich as their money is straight up an asset for the kingdom, ours started off by paying off the national debt from his own pocket
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