7
neeno
40d

!dev

Sorry about another non-dev rant, but I can't help it :p

I have seen a post here on devRant a few minutes ago talking about being a millionaire, so I thought I'd write a lil something for people thinking of chasing that.

As I said in a comment on that rant: as Jordan Peterson (aka Lord of the Lobsters) said, in order to be successful you need to be an industrious person, i.e. you gotta work hard, very hard. Most success stories are from people that worked very very hard (Elon Musk is one I can remember off the top of my head) and had to put their life, friends, family in second place. To this day I remember watching a video on a 30 year old millionaire, he said he didn't have friends for about 6-10 years, he just worked, worked and worked. If that's what you wanna do with your life do your thing, I'm just saying that's not it for me.

A few years back I wanted huge success (being famous, being rich), but I've come to realize that's not what I want. Being famous must suck, people recognizing you everywhere you go and shit, and being rich comes with a price (pun intended?), which is working every minute of your time for 10 years. That's not gonna make me happy, I have realized that I want to get married in my early 30's at max, have kids, buy a comfortable house somewhere in europe, have enough money to be able to give my family a good life and be able to buy and tune a few cars (that's a dream of mine btw), and maybe even try to start a company of my own (I don't like the idea of having a boss). And I think that to achieve these goals, all I need to do is be a bit smart right now: invest in fixed income, don't buy expensive shit, live with my parents at least until I get out of college and get a relatively decent job.

Anyway I might've steered off-course for a bit there, the point is: before you decide you want to be a millionaire, think what you actually want in life. If you want to be rich and are sure you have the willpower to work a 100 hours per week, do your thing, whatever makes you happy. But if you are going to work 60 hours a week and you're looking to be rich you're just going to be disappointed. You'll be chasing money all your life, sacrifice the (IMO) important things in life (friends, family, health, fun) and you won't get anywhere.

It's all or nothing, make up your mind before you waste your time.

Comments
  • 1
    Also, if any of the old folks around here have any advice, I'd love to hear it!
  • 3
    Being famous/rich is struggling all your life to get paparazzi attention and then wearing sunglasses to avoid paparazzis.
  • 4
    Our lives don't compare to elon musk. The advantages he has separate him from you. This is a quote about from his father as to his view of their family's old money wealth:

    “We were very wealthy,” says Errol. “We had so much money at times we couldn't even close our safe.”

    With one person holding the money in place, another other would slam the door.

    “And then there'd still be all these notes sticking out and we'd sort of pull them out and put them in our pockets.”
  • 3
    I'm pretty old!

    I think you should keep living with your parents for a good while and buy assets instead of paying rent. That will help you a ton regardless of what you end up doing.

    Also your goals are pretty lofty so to have any chance at all you're going to have to become very frugal.

    You want a business + a family + a house and cars really fast + a leisurely lifestyle that's a lot to ask. You're not willing to work insane hours. What are you willing to sacrifice to get these exceptional results? Spending is the only thing left I can think of, so let's master that at least.

    May I ask why is it so important for you to get married and start a family early? If you just get married late you'll make things way easier on yourself
  • 3
    Just do what you want. Whether you're happy or not in the end, at least you know that the choices were made by you (at least that's what you think) and not by somebody else.

    We were rich before I turned 6. Things went downhill fast and I found myself being unable to pay for College. Got a scholarship, got a job, left the leeches, and built myself back up. My parents wanted me to be a nurse, that was their choice, IT was mine. If I followed them, I would have been one of the nurses who can't find work or maybe the next Angel of Death.

    Even if I did find a job, there's no way in hell I'd have as much freedom and opportunities banging on my door and offering me money while I slack around with my crotch out in the open.

    I'm not a millionaire but it's a pretty decent life. It doesn't even sink in how much money I have in excess because I don't want to buy much of anything anyway.
  • 0
    @ArtOfBBQ Yes, I understand those things are not cheap and they're not for everyone, but I don't want them fast.
    I'll probably only have a good house like I want in my 40's.

    The cars won't be _that_ expensive, I don't want supercars, I want junk cars that I can restore and tune.

    Actually I'd like to get married between 28 and 34 years old, don't really know why though. I think I just want to have kids while I'm young enough to have energy to be a fun dad, to play with my kids. Or maybe the idea of settling down with someone sounds very good in my head, but I might be thinking of myself as being in a movie...

    Starting a business would probably be around 35-45? Idk, I'd have to balance managing a business with having kids, so timing is kinda important here.

    As for saving money, I'm good with that. I don't like spending money, it kinda "hurts" in my pocket. I try to avoid spending on unnecessary shit.
  • 0
    @ArtOfBBQ

    As to what I'm sacrificing for all that? That is actually a really good question... I'm thinking that maybe investing in fixed income right now would be enough to give me some passive income when I'm older, but after I read your comment I'm not so sure... I might end up working a bit harder in my 20s and 30s, but I don't want to end up without friends and stuff like that. I might never accomplish those objectives, but I'm not chasing money, I'm chasing well being. So if I fail it's because I chose other things more important to me, and that's gonna be ok, it's not gonna be chasing money and failing, where I wouldn't have anything left after I failed. If I fail in my objectives I won't have money, but I will have all those other parts of life I think are important.
  • 0
    @SortOfTested hmm, I didn't know his family was wealthy... Anyways, that's not the point. If anything, what you said just makes my argument stronger: the dude is a success because he worked super hard AND his family already had a ton of money. If his family didn't have that money it would be even harder for him, so he might not have accomplished what he did even with all his effort. If that happened to me (working my ass off for years) and I failed, I'd just consider it a waste of time and get filled with regret. I'd die sad, old, broke, and alone :p
  • 0
    @mcfly yeah, that's is what I'm afraid of.

    Also, I also would too consider having those things I want as being rich, but most of the time when I say rich I mean stupidly rich, lamborghini rich, 5 houses rich, which is not what I want. Basically, I want to be comfortable and not worry about money. That won't be easy, but I think (and hope) it's doable without sacrificing 10 years of my life.
  • 1
    Rich people dont work hard at all. They hire other people to do the hard work of researching, building, making, and selling stuff. Then take 90% of all the profits while paying everyone else out of the 10%.

    That's how businesses and owning stocks work... though stock dividends are as much as CEO pay... unless you own a lot of stocks...

    By fixed income you mean passive income right? not bonds? bonds dont pay much these days... though its good for my 401k since i switched to 80% bonds last year before the rates fell...

    But stocks are going way up too which doesnt make much sense except that people and well rich people just have nowhere else to put it...
  • 2
    @neeno
    At a certain point, money makes money. If bill gates throws money at something, speculators go crazy and the price goes through the roof. Same for warren buffett, and any of those of obscene wealth. The musks make a move in the gem exchanges, the prices automatically shoot up, if only by increasing volume of trade.

    The worst he could do was only making slightly more money than he started with. And that's before accounting for the fact that his wealth gave him access to spend other people's money. He didn't sink his personal funds into anything. He leveraged investors who knew his family.

    Or look at it this way: if our president had just sat on the pile of cash his father gave him and did nothing with it, he would be wealthier than he is now. Failure doesn't phase those who have no risk of anything greater than a smaller yacht. They have no skin in the game.
  • 1
    @neeno
    being rich has no problem!
    the prob lies in what's making you rich..
    Do U lov wat U do?
    Is t helpin alot of pipo out there..?
    can U get som ¥€$ out of it..?

    THEN WHY NOT TRY IT..
    JUST-DO-IT.

    the more pipo you help the more money...

    NOTE: terms and conditions apply..
  • 0
    @donuts I don't mean rich people getting richer, I mean middle class people getting into upper class. Of course if you have money you can just make it work for you, but if you don't you need to work a lot and be lucky to have a shot at it.

    Also, I do mean bonds (I think), not 100% sure because english isn't my first language. I'm looking at them because they seem to be the safest option, all it takes to make money out of them is time and continuous investment (investing like $500-$1000/month). I might be wrong though, I'm still learning about finance.
  • 0
    @migpotek exactly, the thing is... I like what I do, but not to the point of working 14 hours a day for 10 years and ignoring friends and family. Also, if you're seriously trying to get rich you will do a lot of stuff you don't like. And helping people won't necessarily make you rich. It's a question about what you want in life: some want lots of money, some want to help people, some just want to be comfortable (I'm one of those ppl), etc.
  • 1
    @neeno the coupon rate is very low now because the federal rate is like 0.67%. In order for a bond fund's value to go up significantly, the rate would need to collapse to like 0...

    Before the rate was like 2% i think so when it collapsed to the current rate, my investment made a killing.

    The thing with bonds is there's yield and price. Lot's of finance stuff behind this, not easy to explain. But TLDR, all bonds are like i will pay $100 in X years, you can buy this now at Y. Before you could buy it at like $80, now its like $99.

    So if i sell now, i made $19. You buy now, its unlikely its going any higher bc a big floor is 0... so unless we get negative rates ... and well i guess hyperinflation.. its not likely to get u much
  • 2
    @donuts that depends.

    Those who inherit money could get away with not working, but thats hard to achieve unless you start that way, we still have no way to change the past ;)

    Most that made their money in their own have worked hard and most of them keep working hard.

    Of cause there are the exceptions but those are few enough that you might just hope to win some large lottery ;)

    Bug I do not think the OP’s dreams are to lofty.

    I come from an academic family but not rich by any standard.

    I have managed to get my own house and family and a good job that finally gives enough margin for some indulgence but not something the kids will be able to live of without working for them self in the future.

    And I have never “worked” more than an average of 40-50 hours a week.

    I do spend quite a lot of time learning out side of that, you cannot really stay in development without constantly learning, but I enjoy that part :)

    So I say go for your goal :)

    Its definitely reachable, but be prepared to at least occasionally stretch the hours if required and make sure to always have some buffer.

    One unfortunate truth (in my opinion) is that one of the fastest ways to get a better salary is to regularly change jobs, always looking for a better payed one. I could probably have reached my current status faster following that route.
  • 1
    @Voxera well you become CEO/CSuite of some big company. You basically get paid a lot of everyone else's sweat.

    The executive to regular whole pay ratio is insane these days...still. Do they deserve it, probably not. How did they get the job... Probably connections.

    And tea most people get these positions by jumping not promotion.
  • 2
    Don't have kids until you are rich.

    Nothing sucks more than poor parents.
  • 2
    As someone who tried the poor life (As if I had a choice !) who you might expect to talk about all their friends, and family and loved one.

    Well, when you are poor, friends don't really want to know you (Because you aren't useful..), family also don't care, and you can't afford to pay for a loved one, so no one loves you !

    So being poor and lonely sucks.

    Don't be poor..

    Now, the question of how rich you want to be, is as they say relative..

    But to be not poor, requires you to work all hours..

    And then some..

    And, you need to know what to do.

    Then, if you haven't the resources to do that, you stay poor.

    I'm at least not poor anymore, but I'm not yet rich enough to get friends, loved one, etc.

    But at least I have the resources now, and know what to do !

    Now excuse me whilst I work all hours for a few years to get it. :-)
  • 2
    > we still have no way to change the past ;)

    Oh I dunno, some folk make shit up about what happened to them years ago and get a big pay day !

    Or a revolution occurs and then you can go after folk from the past and get them to pay you money..
  • 2
    > if you're seriously trying to get rich you will

    > do a lot of stuff you don't like.

    Quite likely, you will have difficult choices to make between what you want, and what others want.

    Kinda like an ordinary job when you shaft your customer because your boss told you to..
  • 2
    > they seem to be the safest option

    I'm not sure what the safest option is !

    Gold in your own safe that someone can steal..

    Property that gets seized should a change of government occur..

    Currency that becomes worthless overnight.

    Diverse investment is perhaps the only advice I can give based on how many folk I've known who was rich, put all their eggs in one basket, and ended up poor when the shit hit the fan.

    Wars are something you want to avoid, but its quite hard to predict if next year your country isn't involved in a civil war and someone has just shelled your factory..
  • 1
    > Rich people dont work hard at all.

    > They hire other people to do the

    > hard work of

    Don't forget the 40 years of hard work it took them to reach that stage !

    And you have to figure out which people to hire, and which aren't going to steal from you..
  • 2
    > most of the time when I say rich I mean

    > stupidly rich, lamborghini rich, 5 houses rich

    5 houses might just give you enough rental income to retire on. :-)

    Assuming none of them trash the place and stop paying rent..

    Then the question of, do you go the legal route that takes 6 months, and lets them trash it more, or do you pay some heavies to throw them out on the street..

    lamborghini /etc. can be quite cheap 2nd hand !

    Most of the time, what folk might consider is a comfortable lifestyle and not rich, everyone else considers super rich..

    Comfortable lifestyles tend on the whole, to be quite fragile, one moment you have it, the next, you don't.

    I'm reminded of someone I knew, top of the tree, $100k a year job, penthouse flat, etc.

    Lost their job, a year later they are living out of a shoebox in a rented room, in a ghetto..
  • 2
    ------

    Basically, I want to be comfortable and not worry about money. That won't be easy, but I think (and hope) it's doable without sacrificing 10 years of my life.

    ------

    Maybe 10 years is possible, if you listen to all the advice on how to do it. :-)

    20 or 30 years I think is more realistic..

    Then you are 50 something..

    Unless you start when you are 5, and you'd be in your late 20's !

    Never too young to start..

    I notice some good advice given already, such as, live with parents to save spending money on renting.

    To add to that, save up, buy land, build your own home, save tons that way.

    Sound like hard work, sure is !

    Repeat a few times, then rent out the properties..

    Virtually all the rich people I know, are landlords, some don't even live in the countries they own homes in !
  • 2
    -----------

    Starting a business would probably be around 35-45? Idk, I'd have to balance managing a business with having kids, so timing is kinda important here.

    -----------

    Don't borrow money, or you could lose everything if your business tanks !

    If people want to invest their money, with no comeback on you, that's fine. :-)

    Or your own money.. (Then you stay in charge, rather than your investors..)

    Business startups are hugely expensive, and usually require you to learn about failure several times to get the hang of it.

    As such, recommend starting some very small businesses as soon as possible, to get the hang of things, with money you can afford to lose.

    Also, employing family members cheaply is a common way to get rich !

    And one reason to have kids..

    Assuming you get kids who are prepared to work for peanuts..
  • 2
    ---------

    Actually I'd like to get married between 28 and 34 years old, don't really know why though. I think I just want to have kids while I'm young enough to have energy to be a fun dad, to play with my kids. Or maybe the idea of settling down with someone sounds very good in my head, but I might be thinking of myself as being in a movie...

    ---------

    Kids are super expensive, and you also need to be in good shape, eg. athletic, not coach potato.

    Kids are also, a lot of hassle, which if you have lots of money, means you can afford to hire others to look after them and deal with legal issues.

    Also, don't marry, unless you want to pay for your divorce !

    I'm reminded of:

    https://telegraph.co.uk/culture/...
  • 2
    @Nanos interesting responses but for mine I'm talking CEOs like Marissa Mayer.

    Just looked at her wiki don't see anything extraordinary except getting into Stanford and Google.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    Is that hard work or just background, knowing the right ppl, and luck?
  • 2
    ----------

    To this day I remember watching a video on a 30 year old millionaire, he said he didn't have friends for about 6-10 years, he just worked, worked and worked.

    ---------

    I'm a 50 something low income person who hasn't had any friends for the last 8 years..

    And the next 8 years, well, I plan to just work and work, since I've nothing else to do !

    If you are lucky enough to have friends, then you aren't really poor..

    If you want to keep your friends, don't get poor..

    If you get ill, that can cause you to get poor, and then you find out who your real friends are. (Which is practically no one..)

    Countless times I've seen folk with friends, get ill, and then they are all alone, even their family aren't interested..

    There is really no happy poor, only happy rich, of which there are lots of level of rich.

    Most of them not really sustainable that you don't have to think about every day, how am I going to stay rich tomorrow..
  • 2
    @donuts

    ---------

    Is that hard work or just background, knowing the right ppl, and luck?

    ---------

    Yes, all of those. :-)

    Related link:

    https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/...

    Knowing the right people is really useful, and can be quite difficult.

    It helps if you go to the right schools, or college, or university. (Or even the wrong ones, you can probably still network and get to know some folk who later on in life will be useful to know.)

    Online is supposed to be a great way to meet folk, but I haven't found it works that well !

    It helps a bit, at least you can get good advice for free. (Cheaper than a shrink !)

    Talking of luck (And you can get books on that..), one key thing is:

    Luck is when preparedness meets opportunity.

    Also, I hear golf is a great way to network with the right folk.
  • 1
    @donuts

    > After graduating from Stanford, Mayer

    > received 14 job offers,

    That is a nutshell moment.

    I'm reminded I tried going to university, wasted 4 years of my life on that, could never afford to go.

    You can't afford to go if you are really poor..

    And its the really poor that would benefit the most !

    I am reminded of someone I knew who did really well in university, got a bankers job afterwards.

    But they aren't saving their money to retire early..

    And they want to give up their job to find something easier.. (They hate hard work..)

    Also, to save money, they aren't paying for dental insurance..

    Insurances are vital to maintaining a stable lifestyle, even though you may never need them, if you do and you haven't got them, wham, you wish you had paid for them !

    But too late then..
  • 1
    > The executive to regular whole pay ratio

    > is insane these days...still. Do they deserve

    > it, probably not.

    That's because finding people who can do that position well is really difficult, because there are so few of them.

    You can promote just anyone to that position, but that doesn't mean your company will still be in business next year if you do !

    There are training classes, but training really only helps those who have the inbuilt ability to do the job well.

    Most trainee's are useless in the field.

    If you can spot someone with inbuilt talent, train them, they will do well.

    For less demanding jobs, you can get away with less than ideal folk in them..

    That said, a lot of companies these days, especially the older ones, can be full of dead wood at the top who have no idea how to run things well..

    Since promotion is one way to get rid of someone from your department without sacking them !

    And folk like to climb the ladder by any means necessarily..
  • 2
    A typical business cycle I notice is:

    Startup, works well, everyone works hard.

    Expanded new business, most folk work hard, a few use office politics to climb to positions of power and cling on..

    Mature business, infected with lazy bums at the top.

    Bust business, mature business that had too many lazy bums..

    Alive business, one that for some reason, had a really good boss at the top who spotted all those lazy bums on their way up and fired their asses !

    (Or otherwise found ways to get rid of them..)

    Some people make a career out of office politics and don't do any actual real work !

    One company I was in, had one person helping the public, and 999 other folk who didn't seem to do much..
  • 2
    ---

    > Being famous must suck, people

    > recognizing you everywhere you go

    > and shit,

    Oh I dunno, its nice to give out autographs :-)

    But you can get that death glare from your SO..

    I suppose one of the reason rich people like to live near other rich people, since they don't all rush up to each other and say, "Oh you are so and so!".
  • 2
    > working every minute of your time for

    > 10 years. That's not gonna make me

    > happy,

    Trouble is, not so easy to find a middle ground.

    I'm trying to find that middle ground now, where I work some of the time, and enjoy my life (Alone..) the rest of the time..

    I do agree you can get lost in the never having enough approach to life and then dying of old age before you reach it..

    But then, you can go the other way, thinking you don't need to work that hard, since you are happy with what you have.

    Except to get there, you usually have to work really hard for a long time..

    You might have already worked hard for decades without realising it. :-)

    For example, if you was a 42lb teenager, how long will it take you to become an athletic person able to do hard manual labour for an income ?

    10 years, 20 years ?

    What if you are always poor and can never afford enough food to become athletic...

    Then it might take you a lifetime of trying.
  • 1
    > buy a comfortable house somewhere

    > in europe,

    Avoid war zones, maybe in the future war zones too !

    Flood risk areas..

    Change of government that suddenly results in huge property tax rises..

    Areas of unemployment..

    Avoid areas of high crime.
  • 1
    Alright. Need to mute this rant now.
  • 1
    > don't buy expensive shit,

    FX [ Nods in general agreement. ]

    Second hand stuff is often a lot cheaper, and whose to tell that you didn't own it yourself the last 10 or 20 years. :-)

    Having friends with expensive stuff you can use helps.

    This can often translate into, you have something they can use too.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    So, don't discount that luxury yacht just yet !

    Remember, you could always build it yourself to save on money. :-)
  • 2
    @Nanos wow long rant lol.

    I sorta know what you mean being alone except I'm 30 and like being alone in my apartment, pretty much can do whatever I want.

    Been getting grubhub coupons all week for $10 off $15 so been eating out a lot this week...

    But I guess still have family around when needed, whereas your parents are gone.

    But yes I generally don't see myself as working super hard but I may just do it naturally... or just my situation.

    I'm just more experienced technically, and maybe focused than others on my team. So I'm better at getting shit done or at least breaking things down...

    But I'm general view is job just pays the bills and covers insurance. I ain't gonna but my ass on it unless it's interesting. And well lately it's sorta interesting though haven't gotten around to reading the Openshift, Docker, Microservices books I was supposed to look over...

    I kinda want to go out now as it's sorta sunny but cold.. Though I also have a ton of things I need to do at home....
  • 1
    @Nanos I make 100k+ but live in an 1br apartment that I own (only 350k) in a Jersey City, next to NYC.

    I do have enough savings in cash and 401k to hold out for maybe 4 years.

    I have a friend that makes 200k+ but lives with his parents still in NYC... Complains about not having enough $... Along other things.

    Just stop trying to buy a $1mil+ swaggy new apt in the city...

    So I guess one other thing is wealth is relative.

    And some people just need to have the latest and greatest while others are OK with good enough.

    I find a lot in life depends on how you see it. You can chase other people or decide to just not give a fuck about them and just do whatever you want. There's nice book on that called The Subtle Art of Not Giving a Fuck.

    TLDR other ppl don't make u miserable (for most things), u make urself miserable by caring when they think and how they see you.

    Which is actually the problem highlighted in the movie I was talking about last night...
  • 1
    @Nanos

    > unless you start when you're 5

    Maybe that's why... I started to code when I was 5 which is probably why I have a knack for it compared to others on my team...

    I'm like a tech guy working in IT (non tech company)
  • 0
    >other ppl don't make u miserable

    > (for most things)

    Generally agree, though I'm reminded of the number one thing that matters to most guys, a woman.

    Which is why so many men chase after things, because they are competing against other men for women.
  • 1
    > There's nice book on that called

    > The Subtle Art of Not Giving a Fuck.

    Will the next book out be called:

    "The Subtle Art of Not Giving a Fuck, Whilst Being Single" :-)

    I''m still working on myself there, no longer poverty stricken ( Hurray for out of debt! and hurray for a very small pension ! ), working on building a vehicle so I have transport, and improving my body so I can become attractive enough to be wanted.

    This I reckon should take me anything from 6 months to 4 years..

    Then I can stop giving...
  • 0
    > like being alone in my apartment,

    > pretty much can do whatever I want.

    That gets old after a while. :-)

    I mean its nice, its just nice to have company sometimes too.

    I remember once going 20 years between girlfriends, boy was that a really unhappy time !

    Now, its only been 8 years..

    Feels like I robbed a bank, got put inside, and didn't get to keep any of the money !
  • 1
    @donuts

    > long rant lol.

    FX [ Smiles. ]

    Nah, that's the short version !

    Just what was on the tip of my tongue for a moment..

    If I think about..
  • 0
    @Nanos i gave up on women, i think u gotta work on getting friends, normal relationships first.

    I dont have any IRL but just concluded i wont ever get one especially given my health problems. Whatever girl would marry me would essentially be signing up to become my nanny...

    And not sure i want a gold digger so my thinking is now sorta "well if i will never get a gf IRL, lets set the bar for ideal GF really high.. so basically models" that way i wont feel so bad since very few people will get those anyway.
  • 0
    or 2D anime characters which of course would be impossible...
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