god i hate css, html, bootsrap, anything that requires you to be creative. its mentally exhausting. and time consuming. it takes hours just to get those divs aligned and responsive wtf

Well bootstrap is utter shit, give you that one.

@RTRMS it is shit but I throw intranet apps with that shit left and right like there is no tomorrow. And I do it with no care for having myself designing shit with css from the ground up

@AleCx04 nah, would not touch that shit with a 10ft pole.

@RTRMS suit yourself my dude. I personally don't have the time to throw down my own css for most of the shit I do AND even less to explain other devs how to use it 🤷

@AleCx04 is rather explain to them how to work with good code then deal with the consequences of them mastering bad code.

@RTRMS tell you what. The day I see a navbar and a couple of panels and cards as well as some buttons absolutely destroying the apps we have i'll treat you to whatever meal and beer you want man.

afaik the grid system worked and supported by a thousand devs ain't gonna be much worse than anything you and I can't spawn out. For designed apps for custom clients I'll give it to you, spin out your own, but intranet stuff? nah man, ain't worth it

It's only like this in the beginning, once you have a handle of it it'll be a fast experience.

I hate this shit too. Not because it requires you to be creative, but because it requires you to use tech which is simply not suited for dynamic, responsive UI. Those are same tools that were invented to build static, nonresponsive web pages. And now are being used for "apps".

Isn't bootstrap built for responsive and dynamic UI? And there are ready to use templates if you're not creative on doing designs?

I am talking about the tools HTML and CSS.
And bootstrap is built with them.

Other people finding CSS hard is how I make my money. By writing their CSS. So yeah.

It's like making music with wine glasses. You can have fun with it and earn money.
But normal music instruments are better suited for music. It's just like the dev world seems to forget what wine glasses are actually used for and instead treat them as normal music instruments.

This isn't about creativity.
Imagine a world where you could tag edges of an HTML element and then align other HTML elements' edges relative to that other edges horizintally or vertically - without them having to be in the same parent element or stuff like that.
Also imagine being able to have a CSS selector for elements containing something.
90% of all fiddling with CSS is just to get stuff aligned and sized properly.
Ther remainder (at least for me) is figuring out how to get elements styled differently when they contain certain stuff.

It isn't you. The CSS standard is just still lacking some pretty elementary features.
Just doing lame pre-digital-era typography and spacing shit still requires way too much creativity.

Man this is my job, day in day out. It can be a pain sometimes, but I kinda love it!

@RTRMS Any reason for this. I kinda use Bootstrap on a daily basis (it helps me to be within the ridiculous deadlines set by the PM, I mean think of the amount of time it would take if I were to hand-code every single element)?

@inhamul quality over quantity, for the vast majority of projects you end up using maybe 10 to 15% of any given framework.

I rather write that 15% myself and do it properly without trying to cater for every permutation under the sun.

The problem with frameworks is they need to cater for everything, where as the project you know what you need to cater for, so why have code that is not used and almost certainly never will be, it’s a waste, on top of that I write better, cleaner code because again I can write what I need, not what I maybe, possibly, could potentially use in 10 years time.

I personally never care what the purpose of the project, be it internal or external, I will never write shit code, it’s either quality or nothing.

@cabbybaby Not necessarily dynamic UI but it does enable sites to be responsive.

It can certainly be annoying to do creative dev stuff if that's not your jam.
If you don't like using CSS or coding the stylesheets from scratch then either look at utility libraries like TailwindCSS or minimal frameworks like Sketch or other frameworks like Vuetify, Buefy, Material UI, Vuesar, Quasar.

@Oktokolo i agree

@cabbybaby well, i mentioned bootstrap because you still have to find the right palette or combination of elements, you know ui/ux things. sure i can use templates but, i dont find figuring out codes that other people have written relatively easier. front end is like a love hate thing for me haha

@h4xx3r well not if you still have the back end to worry about hahahaha

It’s super rewarding just to take the time to learn SASS. Saves you a headache down the line. Even works wonders with stuff like bootstrap, bulma etc

@RTRMS totally agree with you on that part. But sometimes it is completely outside our control, when the management expects us to finish a project in a very tight deadline (and the ignorant clients are given the wrong impression that a platform can be developed within weeks), and the developers are left with no choice but to rely on frameworks to get the job done.

@inhamul depends I guess, depends, I been doing this too long to accept deadlines, I give them so if you come to me and tell me I got 1 week to do 1 months of work, I tell you to turn around and get working on that time machine so you can come tell me 2 months ago.

@RTRMS wow! It would be nice to be in your position man. I think you are far up in your career (a senior/principal dev maybe?) that the management actually listens to you!