Happy that Facebook “lost” 230 billion in valuation (got off that toxic platform years ago as well as Instagram). Should I stop using React Native as well?

Question is "if" and "how" on earth do they gain money from an os framework.

just stop using internet if you are against evil

I don't have a strong opinion on frontend tech...

But just because a company is rotten at the management/investor level doesn't necessarily mean that their engineering tools are bad.

Especially their open source stuff -- They don't really profit from it, other than getting free improvements back from the community on their own tooling.

The only thing I'd be wary of is if FB is sliced to bits by government regulation, they might stop backing React at some point, the project could decline rapidly in popularity, splinter into many forks, there might be FOSS community drama, etc.

But that risk is present with almost all large organization-backed frameworks.

Can we start calling it the new name now?

@theabbie I think you've defended Facebook in previous arguments.

I think you may have skin in the Facebook game....

That makes your point moot.

Don't get Fuckerberged.

@sariel Not using their open-source libraries just because of your paranoia is bit dumb tbh

@theabbie not using their open source libraries based on the principal of, fuck Facebook, is not.

Fuckerberg is evil distilled and served in a turd chalice.

Anything that helps support his regime of lies and his attacks on personal privacy should be met with extreme prejudice.

@bittersweet Actually, the decline of their valuation makes government action less likely. Although they're mainly looking at competition, a cheaper company owning a sector is considerably less dangerous than a valuable one. Then again, maybe that power was what kept the authority from finally slicing up Facebook for good.

@theabbie On the contrary, not trusting the main backer is the third best reason to avoid an open source project right after needing functionality the project doesn't provide and not trusting the lead devs.

@sariel @theabbie

I think the flaw in almost any conspiracy is oversimplification.

Zuckerberg is a bit of a sociopath, and could be classified as "evil", I think.

But I don't think there's a deep villainous plan.

Zuck himself most likely still believes in his own marketing, that he's connecting people, making the world a better place using a social network.

In any company, compromises have to be made. So you wave away the discomfort, continue "making the world a better place". You convince yourself that ends justify means. You brainwash yourself, bit by bit, lodging your ass deeper into your own cult.

Developers working for FB also survive by ignoring their own discomfort, either for a while, or permanently.

That doesn't mean that anyone connected to Evil Corp is Evil.

You could call it misguided, maybe it's a poor career choice, ethically speaking.

But it's not like React must be evil, because all FB engineers must be evil, because FB does evil.

@bittersweet Being financed by a corporation whose members firmly believe and enact day by day that ends justify means is scary enough without all the theatrical emotional nonsense.

@bittersweet just to point to the extreme.

Nazi soldiers were still evil fuckwits even though they were, "just following orders".

Same can be said for developers that continue to aid and abed in the dismantling of democratic government and eroding our civil liberties. If you're a Facebook developer, fuck you.

There's literally one thing you could say that would make me think you're not a piece of shit, "I am working undercover to document the crimes against humanity at Facebook."

@sariel

I strongly dislike Facebook myself, and have cut all ties with all their platforms -- But I think that such an absolutist, polarizing attitude is also harmful.

Yeah, Facebook should probably be dismantled.

The question is, what to do with cultists? Hang them all, or rehabilitate?

Zuck might be a villain, but that isn't the main issue. He's an easy-to-blame villain, because of his character.

The villainy, the conspiracy spreading, the bullying and doxxing, the democracy undermining and the ruthless unethical advertising...

...well, that is happening on all major platforms.

Now, I would personally also not work for YouTube, I won't touch Telegram with a ten-foot pole, and Twitter? No thanks.

I'm also a vegetarian -- But does that give me the right to drag meat-eaters in front of a tribunal? And can vegans nail me to a cross in turn, for eating an egg?

So, I'm also not sure it's constructive to immediately throw FB developers on the evil shit pile.

@sariel

And to play into the Godwin argument:

Sure, NSDAP members & Nazi soldiers are certainly to blame, and the "just following orders" argument doesn't clear you from a duty to good ethics.

But I also think that in modern discourse and pop culture, painting Hitler and the actively participating Nazis as this monstrous tyrannical evil force is unhelpful.

Sure, there's truth to it, but it doesn't propagate the right lessons.

The truth is that right before the Nazi era, there was an industrial revolution and an economical market crash.

Worldwide, millions of workers were displaced by automation, impoverished, and they felt lost. Xenophobia spread like wildfire, because blaming others is easy.

Hitler was just one opportunist using rhetoric of nationalism and fear to distract citizens from being fucked by the class war -- Germany, Italy, Spain, Japan, China all had their own variations on the same theme.

@sariel

So even if we lock Zuck AND all FB devs in a dungeon....

We're still gonna have a problem if our uncles keep falling into YouTube clickbait until they believe that Mexicans are lizards who poison children, or millions of dumb teens get mentally diseased from TikTok popularity contests.