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i-like-foxes
2y

I can work with Angular, even though it's pain in the but.
My current Angular job is actually the job with the first manager that had decent human values and ethics, I like my team, and yeah, what we building is shit. But it's only 30% shit because of Angular, another 30% are due to SAFe, and the rest is the usual stuff.
Still enjoy my job and respect my team.

But please do not expect me to pretend Angular is on a comparable level to React. Angular hasn't brought any actual innovation in most major versions but releases those breaking major updates still at least twice a year.
Ivy might be awesome, but only because Angular told the world 3 years ago also to have Ivy compatible compile targets for their libs/packages doesn't mean everybody cared.
And the ngcc, the awesome compatibility compiler, mutates node modules in place. So ne parallel stuff, no using yarn2 or pnpm.
At the same time, React brought so many innovations into the frontend world but is basically backwards compatible.

Not sure how the Angular partial compilation and whatever needs to go on works, but it seems like there's hardly anyone that really knows, so you can't use Vite or whatever other new tool.
And sure, if you're really good, you can write Angular without producing memory leaks.
But it's really hard. Do you know what's also quite hard: Producing memory leaks with React!

And for sure, Angular Universal, which isn't used by anyone, it feels like, will still be on a comparable level to an open source product that's used all over the world, builds the basis for an open source company, and is improved by thousand of issues day by day.

And sure, two kinds of change detection are a great idea. And yeah, pretending Angular comes with all included makes it worth it that the API is fucking huge and you're better of knowing nothing, because you have to read up things, than knowing quite a lot, since making assumptions and believing apis work in a similar way and follow similar contentions...

Whatever... I work with it. Like the time. Like the company, even my poss. But please don't expect my lying to you this was a good idea, or Angular is even remotely the same level of React.

rant

techstack

angular

react

frontend
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Comments
  • 0
    2y
    I feel the same way about Ember.js at my workplace they do their best to add nice things to the framework but it's frustrating to be nowehere near React in terms of ease of use. Even React is starting to become an old man in the world of Web frameworks.
  • 0
    2y
    Every single thing in Angular automatically handles its garbage, if you have memory leaks that's your fault.
    Angular and React cannot compare because they are not supposed to. React is just a library for reactive components. Angular is a web framework.
    If you want flexibility, and ease of use, use React, if you want robustness and team scalability, use Angular.
  • 0
    2y
    What I hate most of Angular are the “zones” which makes integration with older JS libraries far more complicate than it should be.
  • 0
    2y
    In other news, Apples are not the same as Oranges
  • 1
    2y
    @Marl3x

    Given that we talk about applications as being "angular" or "react" applications, i think that defines react as being a framework, even though it has been debated heavily whether react is a library or not.

    What facebook called it, is not what it is today.
  • 0
    2y
    @Marl3x

    I value if frameworks prevent you from creating memory leaks and do not require that you don't make any mistakes.

    Any observable you subscribe to, at least if it's not in a template, you need to unsubscribe.

    And you can like or prefer Angular over React. Fine.

    But there's no technical reason or actual rationale behind the claim that Angular is inherently more stable, enterprise/ reliable, or whatever.

    And if a framework allows mixing two completely different methods for change detection, I don't feel like Angular is that same option, where I came to rely on the result even when having some less experienced devs on the team.
  • 0
    2y
    @DEVil666

    You should also know that you can't be sure it'll work as expected if you use async await because of zones.
  • 0
    2y
    @i-like-foxes I don't know what type of observable you mean, the HttpClient does not need, Forms do not need it, the Router does not need it. If you have your own RxJs Observables that cause leaks that's not Angulars fault.
    My point is, that Angular has a definitive way of doing things. Everyone that joins a project knows what to expect and can quickly start developing as long as he knows the business use case. With React, there is so many libraries, and architectural patterns you may choose, that you never know what the application might look like at the end. Especially for beginners designing applications, this kind of flexibility is not actually a good thing. But you might disagree with me.
  • 0
    2y
    @martin-juul React is a library. NextJs is a framework. React does not appose any structure on your code, neither does it tell you how to solve problems that might arise during development of an application, like routing.
    With React you build your own framework.
  • 0
    2y
    @Marl3x

    That's just not true. I work on a big project, where teams maintain their own angular projects and there are teams that definitely do things very differently than other teams.
  • 0
    2y
    @i-like-foxes Well obviously your codebase will be different, and you can always add on top, but the fundamentals are always the same. React is much more "low-level" than Angular.
    Components, Services, Modules, Interceptors, Pipes, Tests, HTTP Requests etc. will always look (except for its contents) the same and anybody will know what to look for, and what to expect when opening a file.
  • 0
    2y
    @Marl3x

    No matter what you're talking abut. C, C++, Rust, whatever... You could always say: "If you have memory leaks, it's your fault."

    For sure, they could be fixed, and they could even be avoided in the first place, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't say anything about the technology if developers keep running into them constantly iusin gone technology, while for the other technology I'd consider it to be a not too easy interview question asking the candidate "How would you produce a memory leak in a React App.?"
  • 0
    2y
    My point isn't at all that I do not think there are many capable Angular Developers that can produce a decent (at least if it doesn't include SSR) SPA using Angular.
  • 0
    2y
    @i-like-foxes

    Recently we had a guy on board for some consulting that wrote a book about Angular that's more than 1000 pages thick.

    I bet he'd write a better feature using Angular than most of my React colleagues I still know.

    I never claimed Angular forces memory leaks on you, Angular doesn't leave you any choice but to create unfixable memory leaks. And sure, if we end up agreeing, things might be mainly on the same level between React and Angular. Might be true.

    So what does Angular bring to the table that I accept the developer pool I could potentially hire from, which is just way smaller than anything React?

    Furthermore, there's a fine-tuned, daily optimized product that takes care of SSR vs. a shitty page within the Angular docs.

    And in the end:

    Sure, if you put all your trust into Angular, fine. But please let's pray together that the one lib, that's many times your only choice, will care for Angulr 14, 15, 16.
  • 0
    2y
    @i-like-foxes
    I don't understand your points tbh., but this isn't going anywhere. If you hate it, then hate it.
    I wish you the best of luck in your development career.
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