Follow up to this:

https://devrant.com/rants/6403741/

So we had today a meeting....

To restart the project, as the current state is garbage.

Turns out the whole team has after two weeks of being left alone with it - kinda like the rant says - zero clue how lucene works, what it does, what its for.

In case anyone of you wonders why some managers are micromanaging biatches, there you have it.

The whole meeting had more "oooh"... "ehm".... "eh"... and other fillwords just to cover the shame of not having any clue at all.

I'm really disappointed that a team of up to 5 people really thought they could pull a stunt of "fake it till you make it". Collectively. Really noone had a real clue.

Now to an interesting discussion: How would you devs reprimand them?

:)

Just curious. Firing is out of option, for several reasons, e.g. law.

Serious answers, I would be really curious. :)

I'm feeling sad for the socks metaphoric in the last rant btw.

Even a cum socket deserves more dignity than them imho.

I probably wouldn't reprimand them too much, and also definitely not as a group.

It might be much more efficient to have a heart to heart 1 on 1 with each separately, or at least a couple of them that seem like they have a future. It could also be that they are not happy with their position and that's why they don't spend too much effort on the project. Maybe they were ultimately put on a wrong project, or are in the wrong role or whatever. doesn't really matter, but could be worth assessing.

finally I'd recommend splitting them up instead of keeping them as a team. Chances are that their incompetence stems from having no real leader. no one to motivate but also no one to really answer to in terms of skill. Would be best to pair them with teams that have strong team culture with dependable leads.

That being said, I'm only working off the info you provided, I have no idea what the project is, what their skill level is, how long they are with the team and so on :)

You aren't legally allowed to fire someone that doesn't know the job and intentionally wastes company time and resources?

Its your fault for leaving devs alone with no accountability or clear tasks. I bet there isnt even a lead assigned among them.

@cuddlyogre German laws are pretty strict regarding that matter.

@topsecret230 Very interesting statement. So simply put - devs cannot be left alone, cannot work on their own and need to be treated like toddlers?

There has always to be one parent around?

Given the hatred for management I didn't expect that answer.

We have a flatter hierarchy, that's for sure. We expect workers / teams to work on their own - simply because that's what they get paid for.

@Hazarth The other rant contained a bit more information about it. It was really a simple lucene pipeline for text parsing and "refinement". Nothing ground breaking, except the necessity to be a bit diligent and get to know lucene.

The task contained an example project regarding usage, few demo texts with expected output, rest was left up to the devs.

Imho nothing one couldn't handle. ;)

They're all quite new and young... Though I know that each new generation needs a bit of time, it seems to get worse every year... Reading topsecrets comment I should better start stocking up on diapers, as maybe we need to teach that next time, too.

Regarding the "no one to talk to". We have a flatter hierarchy as I mentioned before. Meaning that the credo is: ASK if you need help. Most smaller teams work on their own - especially if the time frame is really short, like 2 weeks. It's just more effective - if the workers aren't toddlers - for short tasks. We do short dailys though, noone mentioned any problems. Other than the dailys, we don't add any meetings or stuff like that unless explicitly wanted by the devs. Leave the devs alone so to speak.

I'd was mostly curious to get some more insight in what devs expect...

I find it really really interesting that it seems devs don't want management but can't work without it.

But to summarize - the team will be split up, we add them to longer running projects, I did a one on one on them. Most of them more or less lack any experience working on their own...

HR is really desperate getting new blood, problem is that their vitae mentions work experience.

But work experience always and only in supervision, like university work groups, school groups, ... .

That information was pretty much hidden from us / management.

Despite my angryness, I don't decapitate people on their first wrong doing. Just mess with their heads a little. ;) Joke aside, I'm just tired.

Really every year new workers are getting ... more fuckity.

But that's another rant.

@IntrusionCM for example I am very independent individul contributor who takes on everything personally so coworkers respect me because I get shit done.

However when I had to hire others or when I had to join new teams I quickly noticed that not all devs are the same.

Some of them (especially remote ones) care only about one thing - paycheck. U see them taking 2 weeks to do a task that that takes 2 days. U also see them taking sick leave before deadline because they done nothing.

Somehow with bullshiting tactics they get away with it, especially in slower paced corporate environments. Idk whats the issue. Maybe they have zero passion, maybe they work in 2 jobs at the same time or something, but I know for a fact that in most workplaces u will have to deal with such devs and only solution is micromanagement and accountability, like puttting them on the spot and etc.

I hate doing that to people but I personally spent way too much of my own time doing other people's work.