I’m sorry, but if you are still complaining about JavaScript, but have really done nothing to replace it as a language or produce an alternative on the web, your complaining is not solving anything and kind of annoying…

It’s like saying, “I hate how every time I cook food I have to wash dishes”, well like I guess that’s just part of the thing u sign up for…

The need to wash dishes didn't arise from a series of really dumb design mistakes combined with pressure from marketing to make home kitchens look more like enterprise scale contract kitchens.

well i guess you should quit devRant, because I don't think you know what we do on this platform

The more people realize JS sucks balls, the closer we get to people giving up on JS.

Web assembly is a thing....

There are other languages.

Other frameworks.

Other solutions.

We just need to keep getting them pissed, sometime in the future even the dumbest will realize that sticking to JS isn't making anything better at all. It just keeps one of the worst languages alive.

This is such a bullshit argument.

With this logic, if someone screws up fixing your car and makes it even more broken than before, then you can’t really complain unless you made an effort to fix it yourself and make it better than the other guy who fucked it up.

You can’t do everything yourself. That’s why we have money and services.

With JS, the complaints are not about me using JS. I don’t (anymore). It’s about everyone else keep using it and preventing anything else from replacing it.

Ok I dislike JS too at some points. It’s hard for me to dislike a language though because… it’s a language.

I’m curious, has anyone gotten far with the strategy of merely hating a language in the past decade? Or are u guys just hoping it goes away without actually trying anything else ya lazy fucks?

@chonky-quiche

It's just a language.

Yes. But a language that encourages in my opinion bad design and does nothing to evolve to sth. better.

Even PHP managed to evolve into sth better - while keeping up backwards compatibility and thus a lot of poo regarding naming etc.

I pretty much don't care about it.

If I have to manage a JS team, they get the - in my opinion - tightest corset I can package as possible regarding DevOps. Typescript only, workflows preventing things like Any | dependency explosion etc. Not only because I distrust devs, but because the language and it's whole fucked ecosystem just invities people to commit cardinal sins.

My hatred keeps me going despite JS devs bitching and crying that they cannot commit all the fun cardinal sins they so adore.

Work is being done constantly to replace and improve JS. Complaints help the people working on these tasks to understand not just their own grievances but those of everyone else, and therefore to build improvements and alternatives that the greatest possible number of people will use, fund and contribute to.

JavaScript as a language has made significant improvements over the years.

It has successfully grown from DOM manipulation to a full fledged scripting language.

The ecosystem on the other hand...

I've seen people pull dependencies even to fucking create flag bitsets, and let's not talk about is-odd...

Then there is their atavistic need to create 19 frameworks every day for each fucking thing, each with their own casino, and hookers.

And that is only because any script kiddie is allowed to push their shit to npm, something that would never happen with, e.g. Boost.

Imagine being abused as much as Javascript and people decide that's the reason you're ugly.

Just the microframework stuff. That's killing. If not for that, npm would be great package manager.

I think typescript is bullshit. It solved issues for people not being able to code by adding a complexity layer

Also, I’m not making any arguments here, complaining is annoying.

Newsflash, complaining without doing anything about it won’t get you anywhere in life. It’s childish and an inconvenience to people.

Ranting about annoying tech is a big part of what this site is about. And JS plus it's ecosystem (by far the worst part) is ubiquitous enough that even if you've done everything to avoid it, you're likely to still have to deal with it's crap at some point in your career.

I get way more ticked off by people who get offended whenever you rant about JS, npm, etc. as though it's some personal insult - and there's a *lot* of those types around here.

I don't hate the language, I actually like it, and use it where I have to and for what it was made. But I am not entirely in love with the ecosystem and/or its fanbase.

In my opinion, the language is fine, quirks and all, and TypeScript is a fine superset. Also, as far as I know, webassembly is not gunning for replacing javascript, more like extending it, since it still has to interact with Javascript to access a browser's capabilities. It is more of a complement to Javascript over a replacement.

@AleCx04 webassembly actually does aim to replace js. The interaction with js is just an intermediate step because JS is so persistent.

@AleCx04 Firefox at least has a dedicated class of webassembly optimizations where if the JS glue between a WASM call and a statically identifiable browser API function is very small and straightforward it gets eliminated and WASM gets to directly call into C++.

@Lensflare Literally inside their faq they stated the same thing that I said.

They even started with a "No!"

https://webassembly.org/docs/faq/

@AlmondSauce @Lensflare It’s like this: I don’t know why someone would rant about using play-doh to build a brick wall. Like yeah, play-doh is not meant for that. Then, when people say play-doh is bad, I just get upset bc it’s not the best logic. The thing at fault for the lack of efficiency and effectiveness is the person behind the tool not the tool itself. The decision of causation is important. Tobacco doesn’t cause harm, smoking tobacco causes harm. I would agree, that when programming in JavaScript, it’s easier (especially beginners) to write unorganized spaghetti code, but that doesn’t mean people can’t write good JavaScript code.

@lorentz I think I remember reading something like that some time ago. About how webassembly decoding was faster and easier than parsing and interpreting JS, so I dig it really. Honestly I am excited for webassembly, have been for some time.

@chonky-quiche nobody rants about using JS themselves. We rant about others using JS.

Of course you can also write good code in JS. But JS is doing such a bad job of supporting and helping the developer to avoid mistakes.
If you are ok with using an inferior tool, you are a masochist. That’s fine. But don’t pretend like that tool ist great because so many others use it and you can still manage to achieve anything, somehow, after many bugfixes and brain damage.

And brain damage is not a joke. If a dev can’t comprehend the benefits and possibilities of compile time checks, that’s brain damage.
Letting beginners start with JS is irresponsible.

@chonky-quiche Because someone *else* used play-doh to build that wall, and then my manager told me I have to sort it out. He told me it was fine, just needing a bit of touching up here and there - but dammit whoever built this bloody wall hasn't got a clue. It's sagging everywhere, is a mismash of colours, and isn't anywhere near as good as my manager thinks it is. But hey, now it's *my* problem, and I'm forced to work with the limitations of this crappy building material in a role that's completely unsuitable for it.

Now do you see why I can't stand play-doh?!

If FE-devs would actually only use JS where you need JS and would do the rest in good old plain HTML and maybe some CSS, it would be much less of a problem.

But at the current state, where a websites are soo slow and bloated, partly because of the bad design of JavaScript, the hate is justified.

@AlmondSauce yeah, but it’s still the person’s fault and not the tool’s fault

@Lensflare tools like JavaScript aren’t inferior for certain usages, and it’s impossible to prevent new devs from using something that’s readily accessible. All the things should stay accessible to everyone.

The only way to change that mentality is to incentivize new devs into using something else other than JS. That’s a tough thing to do but it’s the only thing I believe will work.