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I wanna meet the dumbass that decided it was a good idea to teach scratch, basic, java, or even python as a first programming language course in college.

I’m so sick of seeing developers out of with shitty code structure and practices, and absolutely no understanding of what is going on behind the scenes of the IDE when you push run.

In order to be a good engineer you MUST know the basics, the root level, bare bones, bare metal shit.

I fear the future, less and less software engineers are comming out of colleges, the majority today is script kiddies, and folks with some basic java experience.

Who the hell is going to be writing firmware in the future then?

It’s insane the lack of foundational skills these students get in college. If they would get a strong foundation in C, and C++ they can easily attack at problem in any language, but missing the foundation, and relying on IDEs.. you will never be-able to go from a knowing only a high level languages and scripts to Lower level problems.

RIP the future of Software Engineering
Welcome to the hell full of script kiddies

Comments
  • 6
    I'm glad we started with C++, although it was a hard one, but I've heard that at the technical university in our city they start with Java and I was pretty surprised because the uni has a very good reputation
  • 4
    That’s fantastic to hear some place still starts with C++, but come on!.. JAVA?! ughhhhh pisses me off who decides this shit.. Oracle must be lobbying the universities.
  • 5
    @QuanticoCEO yeah we started with basics in the first semester and in the second we were doing the more advanced stuff, we also had to program a data structure in C++
  • 3
    @catintroholic that is great to hear and that is the more appropriate way to teach it
  • 6
    Cobol ftw
  • 3
    @codePolitics 😂😂
  • 7
    I'm so happy my first ever language taught to me was c ^^
  • 4
    I learned python in my first semester as a CS student but after that it was all C++
  • 8
    This is why I am learning assembly.

    I don't think you can get more "to the metal"..

    (Except for binary)
  • 6
    With us they started with Python as an introduction to peogramming and computer science. We then had 3 different classes with cpp in which a lot of cool topica were touched. Data structures and algorithms was thaught in C and cpp and then we had some basic courses in assembly. They were fun really. Sad to see not a lot of schools teach those anymore. I also liked the original MIT idea of teaching Scheme. Lisps dialects are fun mkay?
  • 8
    If universities started with a language that required memory management, more than half of the students would leave. Half of that leaving section would switch majors, but the other half would leave completely, depriving the university of tuition money.

    Memory management doesn't make the world go 'round, garbage collection does.
  • 4
    C++: First Love ❤
  • 3
    And now when I play with lists in Python, I know what actually happens underneath. That is a good feeling.
  • 3
    Can't agree more. I did two years of c++ at uni before starting with Java and other languages. I even did some assembly the first year to understand how software actually works.

    I've seen people who don't understand the difference between copying a list or an integer in python, because to them they're just variables. I'm glad I was forced to work with dynamic arrays and got to learn what happens under the hood to avoid efficiency holes like that one.
  • 1
    @gorsamp which is kind of good. Honestly I was getting fed up with the people that thought that everything was going to be simple af and then blamed the instructors on everything. C and Cpp were the first test, the rites of passage "you got this good, now tou can gain unlimited cs powers"
  • 2
    @QuanticoCEO It's not Oracle. The entire financial industry runs on Java and COBOL in some places.

    Here in South Africa and likely many other countries, the universities periodically meet with industry leaders (aka corporate) to determine what they need to teach the students. Surprise surprise, Java everywhere.

    I learned PHP and Python myself at work. College only taught me Java (badly) and C# (which I wasn't in class for because the applications I built at work were more educational than the curriculum). I don't even count VB as a language in my repertoire.
  • 3
    SUNY Polytechnic Institute starts with C, moves to C++ then introduces Java and OOP. After that we move to a course on Software Engineering where we work in teams and are taught to keep our code standardized so the professor can't tell who wrote what; while still being able to understand the code. It's also mandatory that we take some form of documentation/communication course. #UniDoneRight
  • 3
    We're also supposed to learn how to program in Binary with a theoretical 8 bit computer, Programmable ROM and other nonsense. (I totally fell asleep during that class unfortunately)
  • 1
    I disagree,
    the actual problem are Millennials unable to cope with the job world due to their environment.
    And it's actually the same for basically everyone depending on the country.

    No motivation meaning they stop learning after school / uni, and get burned up in shitty jobs, never finding joy or fullfil-ment.

    Who will write your firmwares?

    Either AI, small and cheap script kiddies, or company's manage to motivate their people that they start learning again, to do it right.

    If its script kiddies, hacking will be so much fun 😍
    #IPMI
  • 1
    And what do you think about starting with Haskell?
  • 0
    In my previous school a teacher tried to learn us c++ but no one had any clue about programming/software so nobody learned anything.

    Then last year we started C# for a few weeks and then switched to Java. There the teachers were good so started to really learn programming. Although some students are a little behind/don't grasp the concepts but you can't force someone to learn.

    Ps: The reason they teached java is because it was the most used language in businesses in my country at the time.
  • 0
    I started with C, I actually believe python would have been a better starting point, simpler in the beginning and * then* going hard with low level shit.
    many of my class mates didn't understand programming because of the too much low level stuff they had to think about .
  • 2
    For everyone saying low level is too hard to understand because of memory concepts are difficult to grasp...

    Umm reality check 30 years ago everything was low level, people worked more closer to the hardware engineers or Even were the hardware engineers. The community was smaller but people were more talented.

    At some fucken point in time we decided it was necessary to dumb shit down, and hand hold people and abstract shit so much that it’s completely unrecognizable from from the low level. Why we did this? FOR NUMBERS ... to get more people involved liberal ideology “oh programming is fun” “you and you and you everyone can be a programmer”

    the more people we have taking the classes the more money we make but the quality of the outcome drops drastically.

    Just cuz you start with c doesn’t mean you have to deal with memory on the first day.. or even first month that so that whole argument is invalid.

    It’s like a right of passage someone said, not everyone is or will be good so how about start weeding out the folks for the industry in college, rather than waiting for the industry to weed them out after they get their degree in a study they don’t fully understand.

    C concepts and C++ needs to be taught FIRST.... with some touching on ASM, how the compiler works, and DO ALL THIS without a fucken IDE ... simple text editor and command prompt.. make them learn NOT to rely on an IDE.. if only we did this the whole influx of newcomers to the industry would add much more quality to the industry as a whole.

    but no we get stuck with these half assed imbecile twats who praise python and love java. “Because it’s easy , it’s got a garbage collector and JAVA runs everything” FALSE! FALSE! FALSE!!!

    The world doesn’t run on java, majority of all electronics are written using c or C++... Windows OS IS C++ and C# for apps... MacOS, is C++ with swift/obj-c for applications .. applications won’t run if the low level code doesn’t exist...
  • 2
    @QuanticoCEO I understand your argument and respect it, fully. But I can only share the fact that I started with C#, you're probably thinking "wtf, what a pussy". But hey, I'm doing a degree now and they're teaching C and various abstractions of operative system internals and I can tell you it would have been quite hard to come up to this point with no experience... Its awesome to get to know more about low level shit but I think for the most people it is more pedagogic to start with high level and then walk back to principles. Unless you're already a hardcore shellcoding motherfucker.
  • 1
    @codePolitics I can respect that but from my experience in the industry any many different companies I’ve worked at, the lower level guys are much easier time solving ANY problem thrown at them, AND have debugging skills that are UNPARALLELED compared to the folks that only have skills in the higher languages.
  • 1
    @QuanticoCEO there's an incredibly tear dropping reply on one of the stackexchange sites on software engineering, I can't find it ffs!
    The guy answering shares your vision and recommends to start with a foundation even deeper that low level abstractions of software and takes on electric engineering... I can't find that fucking masterpiece! I hate myself, yolo.
  • 2
    @codePolitics oh man if you can find that it would be awesome! I totally agree with him.. the better the foundation the better the developer... these folks with high level knowledge only has built themselves a house made of cardboard and most of the house has uncompleted rooms all built on top of plastic slab essentially.

    While I and my fellow “dinosaurs” are living in well fortified, strong base underground mansions of knowledge
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