I was curious what's the current demand ranking of programming languages and found this. Calling SQL a programming language and putting iOS instead of Swift makes the ranking not credible in my opinion.

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    At least there isn’t HTML on the chart...
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    I’m actually very surprised java is even on the list. I have only heard of two companies that are using it for production code and both of them had more c++ and .net developers than java developers.

    I’ve heard of more companies that throw out resumes with java on it automatically than I’ve heard of people actually getting hired to write java. Maybe it’s just my field.
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    Can you link it?
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    @FrodoSwaggins My company uses mostly Java for all of our products. The only things that aren't are our web based products.
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    @FrodoSwaggins maybe look at programming companies then
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    I thought Java script would give a lead for all other Lang!

    Unfortunately it isn't I think
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    @R3zz0R my exact thoughts 😂

    @andros705 it is language, I agree, but not programing language.

    @jhh2450 article itself is old, it just came up as first link on google: http://codingdojo.com/blog/...

    @FrodoSwaggins as I said above, it is outdated
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    @FrodoSwaggins I write in java at my work
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    I think the biggest surprise for me is "higher demand" for Perl that PHP.
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    @busuu you’re free to think that if you want. next time a hiring manager throws out your resume because it says java on it, at least you’ll know they’re retarded. You’ll still be unemployed, but at least you’ll have that. Just telling you how it is in SoCal.
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    @FrodoSwaggins Java still remains the top language on the TIOBE index as well along with C
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    @FrodoSwaggins aint socal that place where every company is a startup and have to develop subpar apps with js just to shit out content faster?

    I mean, just askin.

    Edit: also just for the record, im kinda afraid of going to job faires after the last one where i had 3-4 recruiters talking to me at once at any given time after i told ONE that im kinda looking for a java job
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    @FrodoSwaggins no clue where you live man. Here in the U.S I see nothing but Java. And the "throwing resumes out" with Java sounds more like something you want to add to hurt more than reality. I have never heard of any job "throwing resumes out" based on the skills of the developer or the person applying for a job.

    "It says here that he knows cpp, c, sql, php, python, Java...JAVA!! throw this shit out!"

    Far fetched as fuck b.

    But yeaj, mostly Java, big programming companies usually stick to the JVM around here.
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    This reminds me of a job offer I read where the requirements are an ipad/iphone developer
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    @BindView @AleCx04

    Apple isn’t a startup. Many departments there feel this way. Google doesn’t seem to be but I don’t really respect their hiring process very much. Most of the engineers that I know that work in recruiting think/work this way. But I’m a systems engineer. I’m probably the /least/ condescending of all of them. Seriously.

    It’s really not far fetched. As someone perpetuating this logic and in contact with many others who do too, i can sort of explain it: each language lends itself to different design patterns and java those designs tend to be pretty bad. There are also very few valid use cases for it, so when you get someone who’s proud of the fact that they program in java it usually says something not so great about their design skills and it usually says they’re happier to pick something they’re comfortable with than what’s good for the job.

    The number of times I’ve seen people use reflection when it was totally unnecessary...

    I thought it was crazy the first time I heard that but over time I’ve come to agree with it

    Here’s the secret to a killer resume: only two bullet points under technical qualifications. Laundry list of languages is not a positive, even at companies that don’t blacklist java devs. If the job says java, it’s better to put “java expert” than it is to put “java,c,c++,c#,php...” etc etc. And maybe one other qualification along the same lines. We prefer if you spend 50% of your one page resume talking about actual projects and accomplishments accomplishments that showcase your design and algorithmic skills because that’s what actually matters.

    So TLDR if you are good with java you’re good with a language that emphasizes bad design patterns. If we’re hiring you to do c++ development that’s scary as fuck.
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    @FrodoSwaggins i almost didnt call your mumbling horseshit until you wrote "bad design pattern" and "good for the job" in one comment
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    @BindView I don’t see the problem.
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    @FrodoSwaggins the design pattern you call "bad" is the right tool for the job it is used for, which is enterprise applications. Because when you make twitter, you dont want to worry about dereferencing a pointer you created 2million lines of code ago and crashes your app when you click somewhere.
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    @BindView I think you’re trying a little too hard. A design pattern that’s bad makes it by default the wrong tool for the job. Those were very separate statements, I was specifically talking about java being the /wrong/ tool for the job. Read the sentence again and hopefully you’ll get it this time.

    To rephrase that sentence, say people choose java rather than the right tool for the job. Make sense?
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    @FrodoSwaggins would make a lot more sense if i didnt know that your 'right tool' for java's job is c++
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    Also i still dont get how can you call a design pattern, that is used by literally every other oo language bad, but i guess u r smarter than the whole oracle team together
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    @BindView a lot of languages have it but very few people use it. There seems to be an attitude in language design that’s like “if we can add it then add it”

    Sort of like going to the grocery store and saying “if we might need it then we must buy it”

    IMO discretion is really important when designing a language. I have overdesigned software before. It happens. You write something because you can not because you’ve thought through it and come up with the use case. Idk.

    We’ve actually fired a guy for sending out a reflection riddled project out to a customer. Well, there was a couple things going on there but redoing months of work was one of them.
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    @FrodoSwaggins bro, you can't say that discretion is important when designing a language when your main tool is cpp, which even though a language that I like, seems to be a prime example of the 'lets add as much as we can' mentallity.

    It really seems far fetched. I agree with the resumee points tho, I go as a computer scientist specializing in software engineering, not as a language code monkey that knows a couple of tricks.
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    You got so opinionated view on this.

    Tell us the design patterns that are that bad in addition to reflection. If your company is doing lots of C++ it doesn't mean that people who are proficient in Java are bad coders.
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    @AleCx04 I actually won’t disagree with that. I’m not a big fan of recent versions of c++ I find they’re not designed very well. C is still designed wonderfully, and I think c++98 is very elegant.

    In terms of 3rd party libraries they are what they are. I only consider the standard libraries subject to judgement when it comes to a language. 1998 STL is excellent, and scope is perfect. iostream I don’t like but it’s more because cstdlib is superior imo.

    Ever since google rose to power and started driving the steering committee for c++ it hasn’t been the same. Hipster direction —> language becomes a hipster language.
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    @okkimus garbage collection really. People mistakenly think that since you don’t have to free memory in java means you don’t have to manage it.

    Not true.

    Even pretty skilled java developers make this mistake, and you end up with insanely fragmented memory and huge allocation overhead because they create objects as they need them instead of managing a pool or a fixed set, and they don’t reuse because they can just make a new one.

    It’s not that you can’t do these things in java it’s more that the language lends itself to different designs and people grew into those.
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    @okkimus also just hyper abuse of casting and utilizing the ‘Object’ class. Way too many dynamic-typish party tricks going on in the standard library, the patterns for accessing os functions like tcp sockets that simply have no reason to be dynamic, serialization abuses way too much class knowledge when really the developer should be implementing a schema for their pattern, and so many of these things proliferate into user code because people are mimicking the patterns that they already have to use. Really irritating.
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    Thanks for the good reply. I see your points but have to admit that I'm not well enough educated atm to agree nor disagree. I have no idea how c++ works...

    But which is safer choice in your mind:
    - mediocre c++ programmer or
    - mediocre Java programmer
    With the point about garbage collection in mind.

    And just to be clear I'm not trying to argue, I'm just interested :)
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    @okkimus don’t really have an opinion on which is safer. I dislike mediocre c++ code and mediocre java code.

    In terms of security alone, I think I have to say the mediocre java code will be better. Just because theoretically you shouldn’t run into buffer overrun problems. But that depends on what kind of mediocre c++ code.

    In terms of which I would rather look at, I’d have to say the c++ code because the mediocre design of the java code and the broken environment combined might just be too much for my fragile heart.

    If we were looking at two unknown java and c++ programs, it is probably more likely that the java is mediocre. At least that’s my experience. And I can’t even really say it’s the developers fault. i liken it to a spoken language without nouns. You can’t be surprised when the sentence has no subject. Of course that’s a nutty example but the point I’m making is language has a tremendous effect on how you express things, whether sentences or oo designs.
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