Dev: Microsoft is shit

VS Code: (ಥ⌣ಥ)

Dev: Oh not you dear! You're not like the other guys

VS Code: (｡◕‿◕｡)

@FrodoSwaggins yes VSCode is good

@FrodoSwaggins well, ya know what they say about opinions 😉

TypeScript is a product of MS too. I almost wanna marry TypeScript.

@FrodoSwaggins nah, that they're like assholes. Everyone has one, some just stink more than others 😂

Oh the stereotypes. I don't see reasons enough to hate a company that gave a good OS to about 90% of the people in the world. Just because we are devs and don't do our work on windows does not mean it's all bad ( everyone knows about update problem but don't exaggerate ). Check out their AI and machine learning division their work is really awesome. Just stop this hate towards Microsoft they are still good. @skynet

@py2js @FrodoSwaggins don't get me wrong here I am a Linux user I don't have windows. The point of my comment is don't hate Microsoft, they built some awesome products and you know that Microsoft have other products than windows so just because win 10 is giving problems to some users doesn't mean that whole Microsoft is bad. I actually saw some of their other good products. And if anyone who doesn't agree that win7 was a masterpiece than they are wrong.

@FrodoSwaggins Good going man 😄👌

@py2js

>a good OS

-the NT kernel is the only kernel that locks every system file, requiring a reboot automatically after updating

-has a clusterfuck of a registry

-changes looks more often then the GNOME DE

-has auto-opt-in ads in the latest release that are time consuming to get rid of

-the only reason it's popular is because Billy G. lobbied IBM to use them and only them in their PCs

-the only reason it's still popular is because Macs are expensive and different, Linux is relatively unheard of, and lots of software is Windows/Mac only

But no, please tell me more about how Windows is a "good" OS

@py2js

>And if anyone who doesn't agree that win7 was a masterpiece than they are wrong.

I concur. Windows 7 is really good; the only issue I have with it is that I'm used to the Win+X menu, so opening a command prompt takes 5 seconds longer...

@FrodoSwaggins

Installing Windows 7 is a nightmare, but when it's all set up it's the best Windows by far. The look and feel is to die for and the Start Menu is laid out pretty well.

That said, the start menu in KDE, XFCE, and Cinnamon sort by type, which is nice but can get confusing at times.

I really don’t get all the hate for VS I wrote a discord bot on Windows and my MacBook developing and debugging against a linux container and running it quite happily in a docker container on a Linux server it was a piece of piss and not slow at all . My only gripe is the lack of native ssh support, even with Ubuntu on Windows it can be flakey finding your keys

@FrodoSwaggins

https://github.com/Microsoft/vscode

https://github.com/Microsoft/...

Are just to pieces of software that are actually cool from MS, I hate windows as an OS and many other products, but to say that *everything related to MS is crappy is a retarded brain damaged statement.

Angular and many other JS state of the art frameworks are using typescript. even torvalds recognizes this:

https://arstechnica.com/information...

Sectarianism is a very dangerous thing.

@py2js MS didn't give shit to the world, they sold it.

@azous yep they sold it. Apologies for misspelling. But go for the meaning not the words. Also typescript is also from MS. Don't know how good it is but still

@FrodoSwaggins

I saw this and thought of you

until https://github.com/atom/xray

Face reveal

@FrodoSwaggins Well that's your two cents, I don't even going to bother going into IDE's or editors wars nonsense, I think that the best IDE or text editor is the one that allows the developer to be effective and productive.

I use vim myself with my own custom .vimrc config, and I use sublime sometimes, and I use VScode somethimes... I tried atom but that's not performant and still I can see and acknowledge that it's all a perception, your "good stuff" can be crap and non productive software for someone else workflow. JS love it or hate it as a language it's what's now on web development and it's what's gonna be everywhere, call it react, vue or whatever comes our way.

Don't want JS cool use lynx and close devrant as this heavily depends on jQuery as a first step to be congruent with your opinions then.

@RiderExMachina you just have reasons why Windows is better than mac and Linux in those two ways, and those two are what matter, that's why it is popular, thus it is good. Perfect, no, and if there was a perfect, non expensive, accessible, user friendly OS, it would dominate all of them. But there isn't, so of what we have, Windows is good enough to win out. Therefore, relatively, it is good.

I fucking love VSCode. Way better for me than Intellij (my team calls it Stupidj)

@FrodoSwaggins I share this with you too, I'm not fan of the new JS overhead new kids fancy apps just lo load a fucking html tag from app.js cos' it's cooler and "better"... But that's a reality and google, MS, Facebook and many other big players are onto it and so industry will follow, vue.js for example is becoming the preferred front-end for laravel.

@FrodoSwaggins On editors this always becomes a fucking argument war, just for the sake of a hoping to end soon friday evening woking on some retarded bugs that I do not want to do I'll say that that's again your point of view.

I have seen people versed on vim, build an entire front-end in minutes - literally no bullshit on vscode, and it's not that I'm cheerleadering one specific editor, over another in fact I like vim more, but that's nonsense to say that from a productivity stand point the tool is crap when it isn't. We cannot just plain ignore that this software still have it's value, even if it comes from someone that tends to ship retarded things like windows 8 we should be able to still see from a non biased point of view these matters.

What it sucks from a code perspective it's the use of electron, in which Sublime makes this better and that's why it's performance it's the best on visual text editors.

@unmarked jetbrains sucks so much that again things like eclipse, visual studio IDE or net-beans look acceptable, and they are a fucking disaster.

@DevNullStdin

You take that back! Jetbrains is by no means perfect, but their IDEs are miles ahead of netbeans and eclipse.

I even prefer Jetbrains over VSCode -- especially when it comes to mixed language projects.

It's very efficient when you have a Laravel project that you can follow translation tags, or how you can intelligently autocomplete a postgres join (because you have configured a DB connection) , or that you can write Haskell with context-aware Hamlet parsing (because it knows how metaprogramming works in template Haskell), or that it warns you about a broken Neo4J/Cypher query inside a Python file.

Rust/Iron/Handlebars, Laravel/Vue, Golang/Bash... I work with too many combinations of technologies for VSCode to handle comfortably -- sure there are plugins for VSCode as well, but IntelliSense beats it on how nicely it all integrates together.

But I can fully understand how someone would pick VSCode for almost all of their projects, it's a lovely "light IDE".

It's like all the good things from all the other editors all rolled in to one.

@FrodoSwaggins

I used Vim, actively, for 15 years. I still use Vim for Latex & text editing, as I love the Vim keybinds.

Apart from Jetbrains, I do use VSCode on my home PC for small projects, like pure JS and Go scripts.

I work a lot with databases and mixed backend/templating languages... and that's where Vim stops being awesome.

Vim is great at many compiled languages, and pretty good with many interpreted languages, but lacks integrations to get a grip on the more complex magical stuff and files containing mixed languages.

VS Code is not a Microsoft Product, it's a project. Along with typescript, or any other supported projects.

MS Visual Studio is the product

@bittersweet I won't :)

I do not use IDEs for a long time in fact i used them when I was on university, I stopped with jetbrainz for it's performance on very large projects and it's RAM consumption >= 5~7GB and that's unacceptable for me even on my 32GB machine.

I had been able to work flawlessly without them, again I believe performance and productivity is a personal process on each dev, for me IDE's make developers dependent, I have take out and interviewed devs without IDE's and vast majority suck without them, so I guess the whole "IDE makes devs stupid" is certain to some degree.

And I guess that there should be cases where IDE's are good but I strongly believe that they are mere a tool and a preference, IDE's are NOT necessarily at all to build great software.

What's wrong with .NET :(

@bittersweet finally someone is talking with open mind. Seriously people understand that IDEs are specifically built to handle large projects. Nothing is perfect but still jetbrains built some good IDEs

I guess most of you ranting against MS are married with Linux, junior devs and or students. I have to say that after doing these things for about 15 years professionally, I don't categorically hate anything. You will learn if you get to work in a broader spectrum. I end this with my all time favourite quote:

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts."

- Bertrand Russell

@FrodoSwaggins Okay I get that you have some issues with s/w from certain companies.
Now I am not an expert and I don't claim ti be one, but I have used a lot of editors, Operating Systems, IDEs and other s/w and have reasons to rant about every si gle one of them.
Can you please guide me to the world of completly perfect softwares
(ps. Tried ubuntu and kali so far. Kali didn't fit to my usecase, Ubuntu is just shit)

@irene good thing we are devs and not users 😀

As aplugin author, VScode sucks.

Can't add custom CSS without hacks thet require administrative rights and break on every update.

Can't extend treeview with custom markup, or custom markup at all.

Also they suck at bundeling their electron app. The release build has the same binary unpacked and within the asar archive. adding uneccesary 10mb

Otherwise its an good tool, but somewhat okish performance wise

@irene I dissagree. VS code is okay averagin on 100mb, another example is Discord is also only around 150mb. Teamspeak for compairison is much more with 260mb depending on the server and if a ts server has a animated gif as banner it reaches 1gig +

The thing about Discord, Skype, VScode is that they mainly use C++ node modules for compution and stuff that is not possible for nodejs. Resulting in a 50/50 spliting between native code and JS.

I know the architectures for electron apps very well because i am writing game development tools in electron, In most cases they even outperform qt and especially qt webview. My apps avarage around 70mb in total in compairison qt webview sits at 80mb with the same feature set and no actually app code.

But this beeing said, 99,8% of electron apps are bullshit with shitcode made by bald monkeys eating their own poop.

@irene when did you monitor the ram of it? Its not like they never had issues. Especially slack is case on its own and has regular memorie leaks that give a wrong impression.

VS code is open source so it's ok :)

@cmrickels I don't like php and I don't like .net :D
It's been great for everything I've used it for (c++ and JavaScript/Typescript stuff).
I used to use atom but I find be code way faster.

@cmrickels there are plenty of vim extensions for autocompleation and intelisense. I used it extensivly in the past....

And php works like a charm in vscode/vim/whatever if you know how to operate xdebug and your editor, which you definitly should as a php dev.

@cmrickels

Gloryfing a software is not good. Especially IDE's or Editors.

vim-mode != vim, vim is extensible and configurable to points where any gui based editors can not. Same applies to emacs etc.

If intellisense for php gets slow on vscode this can have only two origins. Bad plugin/config or bad php code. This is not meant to be offensive but just a pointer to a possivle issue in your code.

.NET support is superb on vs studio not vs code. One is a IDE the other a editor.

There are usecases for IDEs but saving money for some fancy framework support isn't one of those.

Real usecases for IDEs are integrated toolchains, big code bases and uniform development suits. in 99 out of 100 project you will barely use anything more the formatting/linting/autocompleation so why use a IDE for microservices or small tools?. Or is every php project you make a leviathan of code?

All IDEs are slow compaired to a editor. Instead of gaining speed through tooling you loose speed through waiting.

I worked a few years with Webstorm and after switching to my new job they insisted I try vs code so I said, no way I’d rather use Vim as an IDE.

> Installed shitloads of plugins on Vim
> debugging sucks
> whatever, I’ll try vs code
> using it for almost 2 years since then

while remembering years with sublime ..

"We can no longer be together, I can't do this, sry"

*cue dramatic music

(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

VScodium, of course vscode is still developed my ms but it has all "Microsoft parts" removed.
Basically it's Unmicrosofted-VSCode