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So, while I'm definitely voting against it tonight, there's a few of these rules that aren't part of just this law, for example, the hacking of third parties to get to the main target is already allowed by older laws (or maybe it was just tapping, not sure).
Also, voting is important simply because the current cabinet isn't going to do shit about it and we need to keep it alive as a point of discussion for the next elections.
(btw, the law is already in effect but unusable because the government hasn't been able to create a regulatory committee, since they can't find qualified people to approve or reject the request for a warrant to use the new laws) -
@billgates I mean, if we can't trust our government, who can we trust?
Also, the biggest privacy problem is that right now if a company does something evil, we turn to our government, but who should we turn to when the government is doing something evil?
If we start assuming everything happens anyways behind our backs, what even is the point of voting, what is the point of elections, of laws, etc...
I think your phrasing was either kind of poor, or kind of paranoid. -
@FMashiro You can't trust the government; doesn't really matter which one. Some are better than others, but they're all self-serving, and only ever seek to increase their power and reach. (The reasoning/story for these expansions are just politics, and usually misleading.)
They may not start out this way (see: United States), but they always end up this way. Always. and the more power they have, the faster it happens.
Don't trust them. It's foolish.
Anyone with power over you you who stands to gain something by your actions/etc. will abuse it, with very few exceptions. Government is absolutely no different. -
@2gnvr9 it isn't going to change anything.
The reason for which we want everyone to vote is so that it keeps being talked about.
If we don't vote, within a year, no one will remember this point, no one will care, political parties won't put this on their agenda, and so on.
So if you only wish to vote if it has a direct impact, you probably won't vote. But if you want change even if it's in the long run, you should still vote. -
@Root I don't explicitly trust the government. However, at some point, there needs to be at least a little bit of trust in order to function as a society.
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@FMashiro then I will. Your comment was the answer I was looking for, thanks!
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@FMashiro I don't agree with your point that if you don't talk about it political parties will put it off their agenda.
If you don't vote, then YES voters will get their way, the law will be passed, it will not be discussed anymore and can be used for nefarious purposes.
Regarding whether it has direct impact then voting, you are part of voting so it will have a impact on you (direct or indirect), else they will not ask you to vote!
Also @Root, I agree that all the governments are self serving, or better yet, the people who run the governments are self serving, but by voting, you show your opinion, and in small way or big it matters, maybe today maybe tomorrow. Complicit people are easy to rule! -
Don't worry about this shit. The gov is so impotent that this will not affect anything.
The ones you should worry about is commercial companies that will get access to the data.
If the law would state that any cases of sharing the information with a commercial company, or 3rd party who is found out to do that would be punished severly, then this law can be sort of ok.
data leaks will happen.... the ones in charge should be fully responsible for this. -
@yendenikhil the Netherlands doesn't have binding referendums. The only reason to vote is to make it known that we don't agree, but we aren't forcing politicians to change anything.
So this vote, does in fact, only matter in the long run since the law is already in effect. -
@Condor A state needs authority or it will go into Anarchy.
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@Condor
Hey, I do agree with most of your points. I think governments need to get renewed and become more efficient.
Im only a little bit more liberal, but let's keep extreme discussion of this out of dR :) -
@FMashiro ever heard about what the NSA did...u know the whole Snowden thing?
There are many top secret programs...
And the Russian election... Putin won again with 70%
And China Xi JinPing got his term limit basically removed -
The same minister who is actively campaigning for the new security law is the same minister who effectively killed the referendum law. Saying that politicians are unable to interpret a "no" answer from the referendum into workable policy.
If that is not the apex of stupid in a representative democracy, I don't know what is.
Honestly, I have given up on this democracy and country and plan to not spend my future here. -
@linuxxx you should actually make yourself candidate in the house of representatives and block that stupid law
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@2gnvr9 It doesn't change much but I at least want to make sure that they see that some people definitely don't agree with this new law officially :)
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@magicMirror Uhm yeah I actually do worry about this since the oversight isn't enough if you ask me and the powers they are getting are way too much imo.
I hardly use commercial services so I'm good :) -
@deadpyxel Only Dutch resources right now I think but search for the "wiv" relating to the Netherlands I guess 😅
WiV = Wet inlichtingen en Veiligheidsdiensten
Translates to: Law intelligence and Security agencies -
@deadpyxel https://rijksoverheid.nl/onderwerpe...
There is an "English" button on the buttom, but it gives you the English version of the entire site, NOT the actual page :\ -
@FinlayDaG33k Thanks for the link, much appreciated.
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@linuxxx Thank you, I'll look into that
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@FinlayDaG33k Here in Brazil, we do have a project in the lines of this, but a fun fact is that most people don't know/don't care.
In 2014 we got a Law (https://publicknowledge.org/documen...) that was meant to have another one together, assuring the privacy rights of us users. The privacy protection law is yet to be approved, and Telecommunication business still trying to not let it get approved, as well to control our Internet (like in US we had Net Neutrality revoked).
I can only hope that Law Projects like these do not get approved, or a put down quickly.
For the Dutch people on here, the new surveillance law in short:
- dragnet surveillance, data retention of normal data is a maximum of 3 years, encrypted data up to 6 years.
- secret DNA database, data retention up to 30(!!) years.
- use of 0days without having to report them to the vendors.
- third parties may be hacked to get to main targets; if my neighbor is suspected they may legally hack me in order to get to him/her.
Cleaning up (removing backdoors etc) afterwards is not required.
- sharing unfiltered (raw) data gathered through dragnet surveillance with foreign intelligence agencies is permitted, even if it's to a country which doesn't have as much 'democracy' as this country does.
Decide for yourself if you're voting (at all) against or in favor of this law, I'm voting against :)
We do need a new/reformed law, this one is just too intrusive imo.
rant