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sak96
6y

Why do people jump from c to python quickly. And all are about machine learning. Free days back my cousin asked me for books to learn python.
Trust me you have to learn c before python. People struggle going from python to c. But no ml, scripting,

And most importantly software engineering wtf?
Software engineering is how to run projects and it is compulsory to learn python and no mention of got it any other vcs, wtf?

What the hell is that type of college. Trust me I am no way saying python is weak, but for learning purpose the depth of language and concepts like pass by reference, memory leaks, pointers.

And learning algorithms, data structures, is more important than machine learning, trust me if you cannot model the data, get proper training data, testing data then you will get screewed up outputs. And then again every one who hype these kinds of stuff also think that ml with 100% accuracy is greater than 90% and overfit the data, test the model on training data. And mostly the will learn in college will be by hearting few formulas, that's it.

Learn a language (concepts in language) like then you will most languages are easy.

Cool cs programmer are born today😖

rant

software engineering

how to learn

no more swearing

machine learning

ml

python

c
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  • 6
    6y
    The important thing is not the language, is the algorythm. The language must be choiced according to the application and not vice versa. It's true that there are more and probably better libraries for machine learning in Python than in C but if your friend is learning explain him that the languages are just a way to talk to the circuit.
  • 5
    6y
    Fuck python I hate it I can’t stand people who think it’s an important language, those people are just lazy. And are just fucken script kitties

    C and C++ are the true software engineers
  • 6
    6y
    Hmm, I worked my way down in abstraction, starting with Python and now learning Rust. It worked out well; I even do some Assembly now and then.
  • 3
    6y
    @sak96 A clever way to summarize what you stated about ML is "garbage in, garbage out."

    Sadly, it sometimes applies to higher education as a whole..
  • 4
    6y
    @QuanticoCEO I usually program in C and ASM (for microcontrollers) but when I need to do something with the raspberry pi I use Python because it's a lot easier and faster (from programming perspective). Doesn't matter the language of it solves the problem.
  • 4
    6y
    @RantSomeWhere not every human is the same. My first language was JS, then PHP. After writing a project which utilized mostly JS and active/background client sides I've put myself into practical understanding of JS/Browser extensions/API/oAuth.

    Before that first project I just couldn't put myself to learn C/C++ or any other strictly typed language. But just that one project helped me begin to understand strictly typed languages. Later on I've learned Java (micro services), then C# (thanks to Unity3D).

    When I enrolled in the uni in IT I was forced to grasp pure C and then C++, having understanding of the higher languages helped me a lot to navigate through C and then C++.

    I think what most people want is to see result instantly, that's what hooked me at first with markup language HTML with CSS.
  • 7
    6y
    @QuanticoCEO Well that's a shortsighted way to look at it. Every language has its uses, to say one language is for "true software engineers" and another is for "lazy script kiddies" is just wrong.
  • 1
    6y
    Since when does machine learning *require* Python?
    Or software engineering, for that matter.
  • 2
    6y
    @RantSomeWhere not everyone learns the same way. I also started with js moved to java then to c. Beeing able to build 'cool' stuff and not only some shitty console programms helped my motivation a ton. I mean with your argumentation you should probably start at assembler before moving to c.
  • 1
    6y
    @musician since C is the best portable macro assembler ever, assembly is indeed useful for understanding C.
  • 1
    6y
    It seems I should code in binary.
    Nope! lol
  • 2
    6y
    This bothers me because it shows the early signs of fetishising a particular language. This leads to rigid, boring devs.

    Languages exist to solve particular problems, and they're not usually closely tied to specific use cases (like ML) - that's what libraries are for.

    Early on it's tempting to evangelize whatever language you first gain proficiency in; not unlike some might cheer for their home team at a sports game.

    Anyway, if your friend wants to start with python because it's more accessible, that's fine. Not everyone has to start low level. But he has to -- has to -- has to get rid of this idea that the language is anything more than a crude tool to send instructions to a computer.
  • 1
    6y
    Learn python, it's easy!
    Start writing terrible yet working code!
    Add enough if/else and call it an AI!

    Seriously. Languages like python are useful when working on certain projects which do not require low level, but you can't just ignore everything else. We'll end up with a generation of script kiddies who don't even know what a pointer is.
  • 1
    6y
    @bezorp True story.
    If someone wants to dig deeper the rabbit hole of dev, the person will deal with low lvl languages on their own. Or maybe never. Will stick with python the entire live. IT is not like physics, where you need to learn all the math stuff to solve a single quantum-physics formula, but you necessarily don't need to learn Lambda Calculus to code in Python, it will just make it easier to understand.
  • 3
    6y
    @QuanticoCEO you're not better, blindly hating on a programming language. If people accomplish stuff with python why are you angry about that? I hate this elitist thinking about what "real programming" looks like.
  • 3
    6y
    @QuanticoCEO I haven't claimed they are engineers but 20 years of Assembly and C doesn't make you an engineer either, you need to have the necessary qualifications to call yourself that and then it doesn't matter what language you prefer.
  • 1
    6y
    @QuanticoCEO @Qwby
    I am root. I am root.i aaaammm root. I am rooooot. Iiiiiii aaaammm root. I ammmmm root. I ammmmm root. I am root 🍿.
  • 1
    6y
    @sak96 does @root know this?
  • 1
    6y
    @Fast-Nop
    I ammmmm root 🤔
    I ammmmm rooooot 🤷‍♂️.
  • 1
    6y
    @sak96 If you say so.
  • 0
    6y
    @QuanticoCEO ++ for the millennials part. ^^
  • 2
    6y
    @QuanticoCEO Hate to break it to you, but you sir, are an elitist asshole. "This language is shit and everyone who uses it is an idiot". Go fuck yourself.
    I understand that needing to learn the underlying structures is important. But you can't just throw a newbie into ASM or C, or even C++. You need to start with something easy, build confidence, then try out the more complex stuff.
  • 0
    6y
    @QuanticoCEO ASM isn't really hard in itself. Ok, a whole project is, but not for learning. x86 assembly is only hard because the ISA pretty fucked up, but e.g. Cortex-M is nice and sweet.

    C isn't hard either, it's a nice and compact language (the undefined shit comes later).

    True, you have to understand how a computer actually works, but that's helpful with all languages, even the high level ones.
  • 0
    6y
    @Fast-Nop i know it’s not hard I never claimed it to be in the sense that I personally ment it was hard... it’s these folks that don’t want to start the new generation off with it claiming it’s hard
  • 0
    6y
    @QuanticoCEO when looking for people who really can do low level shit including reading hardware datasheets, setting up clock paths, ISRs and use an oscilloscope for debugging, then people with EE degree may also be considered. In embedded, you'll find more EE than CS, actually.

    Btw., C and ML/NN isn't an issue with the FANN library which has been ported even to Cortex-M.

    However, I'd trust rather CS folks than EE if the task is to set up some software that runs distributed on several thousand servers, and I wouldn't bet on C for such an application.
  • 0
    6y
    @Fast-Nop I would agree, how we have done it was paired the hardware and software team tightly software goes to all hardware meetings but not the other way.

    I see more CE students doing the low level work but the CS students who understand low levels have always been far superior in my experience.
  • 2
    6y
    @QuanticoCEO I started out with high level and learned Assembly and C in university, so your claims about what happens in university isn't even correct.

    That's the problem with elitists. When they're wong it really hurts their narrative. I still don't understand why you assume everybody has to learn stuff in one particular order, you know with everything you can work bottom-up or top-down. Am I now a "script kiddie" for being a CS student that happened to learn it the other way around?
  • 2
    6y
    How about we just use what is best for the task at hand without making this a "millennial" issue? While I am the first do admit that lower level languages are extremely useful to know and employ, I really do not agree with the fact that higher level languages are worthless and should be segregated out of the minds of newbies. We're better than this, gentlemen.
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