Breaking Bad, European edition

Nah he's too old, too much of a strain on public resources.

@spongessuck that’s what they think in the US of A

@kiki in Europe as well, you do not get treatment on late age. But 60 or something of whatever Walter white was, is young enough indeed. The Netherlands is talking about a thing like "Voltooid leven" which means "Finished / completed life" meaning not much reason to still do something about it. No joke. Interesting dutch health fact: did you know every Dutchy by default donates organs? Sick huh.

@tamagotchi Yup it's disgusting. Mom tells me how they sometimes don't even give treatment for broken bones because "they're old"

Yeah in europe we manufacture meth for the love of the game, not because we need to

@tamagotchi donate your organs to me alseblieft daddy got billz

(just bought a church and i need to play the Toccata in D, from Mozart)

6 months to 3 years but first 5 years of misdiagnosing you as random bullshit

also they won't cure you they'll just give you more cancer

Canada we have free healthcare so if you call they suggest MAID (medical assistance in dying) as of late...

and if you ask any questions you're the problem

(I maybe should stop with my dark humor, tehe)

@jestdotty yeah, i've heard about MAID, they targetted veterans and handicapped people for a while. "Hey, maybe your life should b eover?".

@tamagotchi > 'Interesting dutch health fact: did you know every Dutchy by default donates organs? Sick huh.'

Sounds like Dutchies are very into _recycling_.

/jk

@D-4got10-01 organ donations being opt out should be standard everywhere!

Walter: "I don’t want the treatment. I’ll rather become a cook"

@Lensflare I'd just go w/ 'you _need_ to opt-in' as opposed to 'opted-in by default'.

The idea of you agreeing to something _unless_ you specifically say otherwise is retarded. Especially if the thing covers something that wouldn't constitute common sense.

@D-4got10-01 I don't think it's retarded. I can totally see a system where not specifically mentioning that you opt in for something important is used as a gotcha. Dear prisoner, you forgot to opt in for food, so you're gonna starve now.

Both opt in and opt out systems can be exploited. It's who you trust to implement those systems that matters.

@kiki > 'Both opt in and opt out systems can be exploited.'.

Completely agree.

Also, your example falls under 'common sense' or 'basic necessity, even - which was covered by my reply

'Especially if the thing covers something that wouldn't constitute common sense.'.

@Lensflare bruh then the government would have even more incentive to kill you

become an organ farm like in Lexx. Canada already does MAID. with inheritance tax. if you put in opt-out organs that's quite a trifecta!

@kiki you forgot to opt out donating your food to other prisoners

it's not about the logic but the intent

but this example doesn't even cover it. they take organs from unconscious people. that's why you have to pre-agree to what to be doing. because in the moment you can't be asked

how about you just ASK beforehand? no opt in or out. just ask me upfront. no deception. no nonsense.

I think stealing organs without permission is pretty fucked up. if you're unconscious can I rape you? can I just steal your kidney and sell it on the dark market? you implicitly agreed to organ harvesting by walking into this alley with me. say no after I clock you on the head. you didn't so you consented!

it's like if someone asks you for sex and you don't say no with the correct paperwork well too bad

that's not consent man

and you can walk away from (most) rape. you can't walk away after having your organs stolen though. which is why this example is so funny to me lmao

literally worse than rape (I simply interpret all consent violations or consent by deception as rape metaphysically, cuz same form)

@jestdotty typical conspiracy bullshit.
You think a government that is willing to kill you for organs would be stopped by your signature that you want to keep your organs?

Meanwhile people in need for an organ are dying because of other people who say "no I need my organs when I‘m dead".
Or even dumber: "No because the government is after my organs and wants to kill me"

@Lensflare also, having your body rejecting the organ after surgery is sometimes worse than not having surgery at all. You have to undo everything, then find a new organ _right now_. At the very best, after the second surgery, you have to recover more because of larger wound surface. this is why organs come with a lot of paperwork and procurement.

if that wasn't the case, there would've been offshore jurisdictions that would transplant organs willy-nilly with no paperwork. but these places don't exist because they would've been killing people. I bet they existed at some point in history when 2% success rate was acceptable, until we figured out how to make it better

@Lensflare @jestdotty for EVERY fucking thing that you want to do but it's illegal where you live, there is some shithole where it's legal where you (and most importantly your cash) is dearly welcomed. yes, even fucking kids.

If the shithole haven for the activity you want to do doesn't exist, then it's A Bad Fucking Idea™.

@kiki plus, having not enough organs for some rich asshole because you want to keep your organs after death, will result in that rich asshole paying big money for someone to get killed in a 3rd world country to get his organs illegally.

@Lensflare nah, people die there on their own often enough

@Lensflare Don't forget you can't be dead when they harvest your organs. Enjoy the trivia

@BordedDev you can’t be dead for too long

@Lensflare yes the government would be stopped by a signature

you talk of Nazis but it sounds like you never read banality of evil. look into it

@kiki there's rampant organ harvesting in Ukraine due to the war. I didn't mean to find it but I somehow saw pictures and it seemed accurate. I recognized the place and the people

there is a lot about this world that is hidden and not advertised. why would they?

@kiki r u gonna find me a place where the laws fit me?

globalists try to make it so the laws are the same everywhere. to me sounded exhausting to look for somewhere I would belong. however if this were true I would love it, and obviously I would move there if they'd have me

@Lensflare it's not third world that the organ comes from. anywhere people's lives have a price. people will sell their kids for a "better life" for their other kids. can you judge them? isn't only the third world though

I meet many people in the first who get excited at the idea of dying for someone, too. it's a legit fetish for them sometimes. the world is genuinely varied. I'd say beautiful but this would be awkward in this instance lol... but someone for no reason fetishizing the idea that their life, all their organs and every bit of them, can go to saving like 50 people. isn't that beautiful somehow? don't mistake me for being a terrible person though. I've just seen it

@Lensflare No, you cannot be dead

@Lensflare that's why I opted out, I didn't like their definition of dead. Bordii, the Borded, is right. You're alive when they harvest. Per country definition of dead is different. Organs are rare shit because it's very rare situation that you can harvest. That's why the MAID program is sick and genius, they'll bring you exactly to the state you're considered dead by law. No, it's just really a kinda sick business.

@BordedDev I don’t know what you are talking about but in Germany it specifically says that your organs will be taken only if you are diagnosed to be "Hirntot" (braindead?).

You can‘t recover from that and while your organs might still be technically alive, you being brain dead is in every conceivable sense as dead as it gets.

@jestdotty nobody knows how the world works. Maybe it's all over and the world sease to exist when you die :p

@Lensflare you can recover from "braindead"

as any person who tries to get diagnosed by the medical system would tell you often you're in there seeing 20 people for 3 years who keep misdiagnosing you because they're hyper invested in it being their discipline or whatever other nonsense. they're not competent but as faulty as your fellow developers who write trash and all the trashy managers and project managers you've had. probably worse to be honest because the field runs more on gaslighting and insecurity than tech. with tech you can't really gaslight because you can run the code at least

@tamagotchi am currently believing that it's consciousness voting mechanism that the world exists and goes this way!

and inanimate objects have a consciousness, hence they vote for matter and physics

@jestdotty bullshit. You can't recover from being brain dead by definition. If there would be a chance to recover we wouldn’t call it brain dead but something else like a coma or something.

You are probably conflating it with your idea of being able to have out of body experiences when being literally dead. Same kind of crap.

If you are able to experience something, then you are by definition not dead. And if you are dead, it‘s impossible to experience something by definition.

@jestdotty yes, you can be misdiagnosed, but that doesn’t change anything about the definitions of the words or the intents of the people taking your organs.

If you are worried about being wrongly diagnosed as dead, that is a valid concern.
But that doesn’t mean that the government is trying to trick you into that position to take your organs.

@Lensflare well by definition if they want to define you as dead and do things to you they do to dead people you'll be dead?

@Lensflare I already told you my position and I don't like you misinterpreting it

@jestdotty see, that‘s the crucial point here. You are assuming that the government is conspiring against you to use the definitions against you to take your organs even if you are not dead.

That is what you are concerned about.

I‘m telling you that the government is using those definitions to make it clear to you that they will only take your organs when it is absolutely sure that you are dead and can’t recover from that.

If you don’t trust the government, as the conspiracy theorist that you are, there is literally nothing they can do to convince you that they don’t want to fuck you over anyway.

So your argument against organ donation by default boils down to "I don’t trust the gov" and has nothing to do with the actual issue at all and this whole discussion is useless.

@jestdotty

It‘s like we are discussing if medics should treat people wounded in war and you are arguing that the government will make sure that those people will be secretly poisoned by the medics and therefore they shouldn’t be treated.

Do you see how this is idiotic?

@jestdotty what position of yours do you think that I'm misrepresenting?

@Lensflare I don't think there's a conspiracy by the government to take my organs

read banality of evil already. you can just read the wiki and you'll get the point

they're not using definitions against people. definitions is a subsect of philosophy. governments function by bureaucracy. banality of evil would make it make sense. that's how the Nazis did it. "just doing my job" mindset. it don't the definition. it's being a cog and not knowing the whole picture. look now I've ruined the reveal and spoiled it for you

government sells things just like everybody else, it's not to "make clear". you should meet someone who doesn't trust politicians sometimes. that's so strange you think they're telling you the truth or that their intentions are to "be clear" instead of emotional manipulation. that's why you listen to logic and look at the system... I'm not in a personal relationship with a politician. I don't want their baggage

@Lensflare I'm not saying there's a conspiracy theory. conspiracy means a group of people secretly behind closed doors agreeing to do something. they are conspiring

it's not a theory

there is no "they"

it's just a system and I'm doing system analysis like how one finds an old network and analyses it

I don't care who the people are. it's incentives. it's economics. it's analysis of agentic systems (which is how they model consumer choice in economics)

@Lensflare people were poisoned by cures during war. though out of ignorance not malice. and government wasn't involved as far as I'm aware

people ofc tried whatever they thought would help

I'm not terribly versed in that history though. at some point allopathic medicine became prominent though and it has incentives. you don't need a conspiracy or a theory. you can just model out the system

I'm arguing if you have a clock in and out mechanism that rounds to nearest 15 minutes people will be incentivized to make it round in their favour. and you're calling it a conspiring theory when I'm saying it's just an incentive in a system that informs people's actions

@Lensflare come on, don’t be this guy

@jestdotty ok I understand your position better now, I think.

But still, that’s avoiding to address the actual point.
You can take any good idea and argue that it can be abused or that it can fail sometimes.
That doesn’t invalidate the idea. Address the issues separately but don’t use those to argue that the idea is bad.

Organ donation is a great idea and it should be the default. Problems should be addressed and not be used to argue against it.

@kiki hmmm I thought you were sorry

@Lensflare I actually make jokes. I'm not arguing. or wasn't before I guess

I have the dark humour

@Lensflare I think is cool https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... 😋

evidently agentic system is just AI search results now. eesh

@jestdotty

> I actually make jokes. I'm not arguing. or wasn't before I guess
I have the dark humour

Great. I guess I'm being a dumbass again for taking you seriously and trying to argue in good faith.

I'll try to remember for the next time to not do that anymore.