Good morning devRant!

We're feeling a bit political and contradictory today, aren't we?

haha, I certainly did not know what was going in OP's mind from the first post.

why is that something to celebrate specifically? is he expecting to participate in a bukkake sessions with this female on successful deployments?

This is art.

@erandria Hm, not sure.

@irene ?

@irene I believe he was wondering if you will be participating in bukkake sessions upon successful deployments.

I mean, just going by that those two aren't contradictory

@inaba They aren't precisely contradictory, but they are certainly of contradictory ideals.

@irene I wish men were celebrated on dev teams as women are. I wish women were like "I hope he's a cute young one" when I joined the team.

Life seems a bit unfair at times, no?

@AlgoRythm totes I wished that was true too...

although I think that happens, but since 80% of devs are male, it's like "oh another dude, yay..."

@irene Quite possible that the programming profession becomes majority female in my lifetime, as there's no reason for the current trend besides the fact that it is what it is. There's no actual reason a woman can't be, or enjoy being, a programmer just as a man does.

Also, and I am aware that this is a long-had debate in the field of psychology, and more recently, in the cesspool of tumblr, but I am not so sure that this is the "nature" of women, but more the nurture of them. There's not much in the physical brain of a woman that would make her less inclined to flirt or be outwardly excited about a male. We are just raised with that role being assigned to men.

For proof of my hypothesis, we can look at an audience's reaction to boy bands or other male celebrities. They act in the same spirit as we do

Interesting stuff.

@monzrmango Kinky

@irene I don't think women aren't interested in STEM because they have vaginas, I think they're uninterested in it because of the fact that so many men *are*. When you're the only woman in your class, you feel out of place; I would. Simple as that.

Therefore, slowly, as the scales even out more and more, it's entirely within the realm of possibility that this trend disappears. And by the time I'm an old man teaching CS classes, I will be teaching classes with just about equal amounts men and women.

And whatever else we have in 2070.

@irene I don't think it should be 50/50. That would just be bizzare.

But you argue there is some part of our nature which dictates that women are uninterested in programming, while I suggest that it is more likely that it was random, and results from our nurture/ society.

It is perfectly logical that if everything was reset, but the first programmers were a group of girls, this would be considered a "girl" job, like nursing or haircutting.

@irene That's not the solution, and that's not the point.

The question isn't "How do we even out the gender count"

The question is more "Why is it so skewed"

And I don't think there is any good reason for it. Sometimes things just sort of happen.

@irene I disagree

@irene "Why" is the first step towards understanding, and understanding is important.

I cannot think of a single situation in which an honest "why" is a bad thing to ask.

@irene Psychology and sociology are "science" in the same way philosophy is a "science" - they aren't.

But they are the sharp stick which provokes actual science.

Psychology goes both ways: they ask "why" and "how" and your assessment is correct here.

Science tends to stick to "why" and that is not lethal to them.

Politicians stick to "how", and their job is deadly by design.

There are many faces to this topic. Which is why I disagreed with the general statement that "why" is not a good question most of the times.

@irene This is entirely too general to be discussed with any degree of accuracy

@irene Hypotheses are not formatted that way. Scientific hypotheses are always formatted in "if/ then" format, not "what if" format.

If x is true, then y must also me true.

This is tested and proven to be either true or false, and then, importantly, verified by countless others.

Thus, the question "why is y true" is always answered in science, provided the hypothesis is correct.

https://csub.edu/~ddodenhoff/...

@irene No, not exactly.

@irene Not really, no. Because we already know that x is true, and we are trying to figure out if y is true because x is true.

"What if x is true" means you're doing something, x, and then seeing what happens. That's not the scientific method. In science, you look for specific cause and effect, not just "what if"

@smb26 Definitely. And as you read the conversation that took place, you will notice I took a more nurture side than a nature side to this.

But of course this isn't true in all situations. I didn't know how to use a computer until high school. The things I was pushed to do as a child were gardening and guitar. My parents are math and science illiterate. There was no pressure for me, not socially, educationally, or parent-ally (I guess), to take an interest in computers.

I actually became interested in computers because my parents didn't want me using them

My time on the computer was limited to one hour a day (something which, annoyingly, my younger sister doesn't suffer from)

And I asked, "What if I'm playing my *own* games"

And my mother agreed, as if that was something way far from my capability, and that would never happen.

And then I was playing my own games.

More about me than you asked, I suppose!

@smb26 I realize that people have vivid and incomprehensibly distinct lives and experiences. I was sharing mine. I expect not only mine, but everyone else's experience to be wildly unique.

I strive to make no assumptions.

@irene @AlgoRythm a lot of our assumptions are just that, assumptions. Why not ask the women who are choosing their careers why they don't wanna become programmers? Maybe the majority of women don't like the idea of sitting doing maths all day (what most think programming consists of)