Are vi/vim users vegans of dev community? Can we also add emacs users to the list? Bunch of degenerates if you ask me... 🤗

Gay, gluten-free, vegan, vi/vim and Arch Linux btw

Shots fired!

give me some of that popcorn @irene

See, my dad was a Unix sysadmin. He taught me to use vi because it is the one file editor that is absolutely guaranteed to always be in every distribution of Unix ever. It's certainly not my editor of choice, but I keep the skill dusted off as a fallback.

@PaladinRevenant This exactly, docker's alpine images also only have vi

No they aren't.

Tell me how its "degenerative" to use a specific text editor. According to https://dictionary.com/browse/... the definition of "degenerate" is:
"to fall below a normal or desirable level in physical, mental, or moral qualities; deteriorate:"

Its impossible to know whether some or all vi/vim users follow this definition and saying the do is a bad case of assuming things about people.

Nice try, young padawan.

But I'll just lean back and enjoy the power and comfort of an effective editor.

You may be one of the weak minded that can be controlled by the force or you may eventually learn and join the emacs side of the force.

These editors are really only useful to people who want to be productive, flexible, fast, and well-supported.

@alexbrooklyn Thank the gods I'm pan-dimensexual, then!

@ddephor I was agreeing with you until the last five words. We could have been friend, mate...

@irene Salted popcorn?

I have been imprecise. I meant the people who use them as poor man’s ide. No problem with using those as quick text editing.

@bahua I too want to be flexible, fast and well-supported.

@aviophile I'm curious now. So, objectively, what's exactly the problem of using them for serious, hardcore development?

@ethernetzero a simple text editor with millions of plugins and shit barely resembling a proper ide, their “holier than you” users etc.

@ethernetzero

That's the joke.

@aviophile I don't know, man, sometimes having certain features of an IDE is enough.

@PaladinRevenant This is exactly the reason why I really want to learn it, especially as a Linux sysadmin 😅

@HampusMa Mate, you were baited hard.

@linuxxx

It's not going to take an intensive 2-week course. You can open any terminal emulator and just type 'vimtutor' and within minutes you'll know enough to be dangerous.

@aviophile

They are easy and extremely powerful. IDEs can be powerful too, but they're also extremely expensive, and the utility they provide needs to be worth all those extra cycles and memory. To me, and millions of others, they are not.

@bahua visual studio, vs code seems fast enough

@aviophile

Compared to vim or emacs? No. It's like comparing a semi-truck and a sports car.

@bahua .....really? 😐

@linuxxx Yeah, once you get the basic stuff about modes, movement and navigation and a few essential commands, you're pretty much set. There's a whole lot more, but the rest is more like doing more complex stuff with less keystrokes, visual aids and things like that.

@linuxxx

I've been using vi/vim since 2001, and accidentally since 1996. But even now, in 2019, I STILL discover new things about it.

@aviophile Maybe for you. 😉

This is absolutely just my point of view, but I'll put it like this:

IDEs have lots of features that I don't need and I don't use. Instead of using a bloated piece of software that provides all sorts of crap that I don't need, I just use a powerful text editor and add to it the features that I really use.

Of course, that's what happens to work for me. Not everyone is the same, YMMV.

The funny thing is, I usually see them minding their own business.

It’s other people who go to them and say, oh, you’re using x or y ....

@rusty-hacker If there's not enough drama, you have to create it, somehow. Certain entertainment websites (calling themselves "news") are great with that)

e.g. "PEOPLE DEVELOPING WITH VIM EARN MORE ACCORDING TO A NEW STUDY"

Vim Korea is best Korea.

I also love vim for reasons. But just here for the comments.

@aviophile
IDE: good for a single language - sometimes stack

Editor: good for multiple languages once expanded with plugins.

Now some of us use vim/emacs, others use vsCode, and a select few customise the shit out of vsCode so the plugins we need are only loaded for the projects that use them.

There's no "one editor / ide" that fits them all.

@C0D4 this. I have quite a few vscode plug-ins bc I hate remembering the names of packages and method names across languages. I know what I need. I just don't always know the name.

@Techno-Wizard i use the workspaces purely because I need a lot of extensions.

Downside to working with python, java, php ,JavaScript and Salesforce on a daily basis, has me needing to scroll for a while.

A lot of the plugins conflict so being able to enable plugins based on what I'm doing not only allows me to work productively, but keeps vsCodes memory down as I don't have everything enabled at once.

That feature was one of the best things I've come to like about vsCode.

@ethernetzero not all ides are bloated. I personally know no modern bloated ide at all. But let us say I am willing to spend 2 hours to experience how superior vim based “ide”. Would 2 hours be enough to setup from start and learn the advantages over using ide? I personally dont mind an ide using 20 percent cpu/memory at all times, if it is not clunky.

@aviophile I can't possibly know. As I said, it's my setup and my setup works for me. If an IDE is what rocks your boat and you don't mind how many resources it takes, then good for you.

One can talk all one wants about this or that feature of any IDE, but at the core I'm just using a tool to edit text and source code, and Vim does it spectacularly well for me. Every other “IDE-ish” feature that I may add to it is just a plus.

But as you said in your last reply, you seem to have a problem with that. In your honest opinion, am I developing wrong?

@aviophile Why would you want to have an exclusive use of one tool? I use Visual Studio, because we need it for windows based development and the debugger is really nice, and I edit small changes directly. But if the going gets tough, I'd rather use emacs, because it's much more comfortable for editing (as an additional "feature" it's also much more stable than VS).

And I don't want to install an IDE for any language I use. For a bit of scripting in python, lua or the like, emacs and a shell is sufficient.

Use the tool that's right for the job, or else you might end up with the famous "If you only have a hammer, every problem looks like a nail"

@ethernetzero you are not developing wrong but different. But my main impressions of vim/emacs “ide” users claim their ways are the absolute best and they are overly vocal, hence inflammatory post here 🔥

@aviophile Admit it, you expected this to turn into a raging flamewar. 😄

Everyone goes full fanboy sometimes. Of course I have too, when I was young and impulsive. The subject really doesn't matter: Vim/Emacs, Mac/PC, Linux/Windows, XBox/PS4, tabs/spaces, bracing styles, iOS/Android… it doesn't matter at all. Just choose whatever you like, don't be a dick about your choice to anyone else and get on with it, that's how I see it after all these years.

But of course, you can still joke about Vim being impossible to exit from, about how using Emacs is like playing the piano, about how Windows is unstable as fuck, about how PHP is a horrible toy language, whatever. As long as they're kept as just jokeful digs, it doesn't hurt to laugh at your favourite technologies from time to time.

@ethernetzero just wanted to flame veganlike vim users 😂

@aviophile which you did an excellent job at doing my man. Respect for the art of trolling

@Jamcris11 are you my alter ego?

@aviophile probably, considering I use vim and still find your post hilarious