47
Fast-Nop
28d

I did it: I built up another PC identical to my machine (https://devrant.com/rants/2923002/...) for my SO and installed Linux Mint for her, too. That had been my primary motive for an easy and stable distro in the first place.

Now that didn't come out of the blue. We were discussing the end of Win 7 already two years ago where I brought up my concerns with Win 10 - mainly the forced, lousy updates and the integrated spyware, and that I was considering Linux as way out.

I had expected quite some pushback because she had been exclusively on Windows since the 90s. However, I didn't sell Linux as upgrade. It's just that Win 7 is over, progress under Windows as well, and we're in damage control mode. Went down pretty well.

Fast forward three weeks - remember, first time Linux user and no IT-geek:

- it just works, including web, videos, and music.
- she likes Cinnamon.
- nice desktop themes.
- Redshift is as good as f.lux.
- software installation is just like an app store.
- updates work via an easy tray icon.
- quote: "Linux is great!"
- given this alternative, she doesn't understand why people willingly put up with Win 10.
- no drive letters: already forgotten.
- popcorn for upcoming Win 10 disaster stories.
- why do Windows updates take that long?
- why does Windows need to reboot for every update?
- why does Windows hang in that update boot screen for so long?

I'm impressed that Linux has come so far that it's suitable for end users. Next in line is her father who wants to try Linux, but that will be a story for tomorrow.

Comments
  • 25
    all chanting in the background (wearing black robes and carrying candles):

    *one of us*
    *one of us*
    *one of us*
    *one of us*
  • 9
    @AleCx04 A penguin hatchling is stretching out the beak. ^^ Now that she has seen how easy things are beyond Windows, MS has lost her for good.

    I consider that as a huge achievement because when I tell people that I've abandoned Windows in favour of Linux, what I get is just "yeah but you're an IT expert". Which is kinda true, I guess.

    If however she mentions that she's on Linux when that topic comes up, it has a totally different impact because she's just an average user when it comes to IT.
  • 7
    @Fast-Nop it really is, people would normally think that Linux is massively difficult to use. I remember my grandmother wanted to play a mahjong game (apologies if I butchered the name) and her tablet was charging. I wasn't doing anything important with my laptop so I put it on for her and explained her how to get to it if she got stuck. She said that she preferred to use that system a million times more than Windows for how easy it was for her to use. And because the pc in question had a touchscreen she loved it even more. Granted she didn't do much, eventually she started watching videos on youtube, but she mentioned how clean and uncluttered it felt.

    A major issue I have with Linux people is how obsessively fanatic they get about distributions e.g "you're using ubuntu? pff what an idiot, ubuntu does <x> for which <y> in Arch is better, use that" or some sort of elitism of the sort, such fragmentation is what puts linux where its at if you ask me
  • 1
    @AleCx04 Well yeah anything other than Arch is like a vegetarian trying to make friends and finding out everyone's vegan. However, I don't care how uncool I'm with Mint - dogfooding is more important to me so that I'll catch any potential issues first. If I don't believe in the distro that I'm installing for other people, how would they?

    Btw., Mahjongg is among the games that I install for everyone, just like Solitaire, Minesweeper, and GNU Backgammon. Having some nice games available goes a long way for feeling success.

    I also love XSkat, but I guess you'll have to be German for that. ^^
  • 1
    Don't forget to do something about your log files filling up your storage, causing everything to grind to a halt, and things to break.

    I of course, found out about that the hard way..

    I wonder what other surprises await us !

    Oh yes, if you don't have enough storage space to do updates, that's another, it breaks thing..

    (You'd think it would check first wouldn't you, rather than run out of it half way through an update and break !)
  • 2
    @Nanos I partitioned a 100 GB for / which even on my machine with e.g. 8 GB for the Android NDK alone is still only at 24 GB usage. Also, I limited systemd to 50 MB of logs. Even /boot has a generous 1.5 GB.

    /home is on a partition of its own of course and currently at 400 GB while 1.4 TB are free. An SSD with 2 TB goes a long way.
  • 0
    @Fast-Nop

    > I limited systemd to 50 MB of logs.

    How do you do that ?
  • 0
    @Fast-Nop

    I'm looking to install Linux (Probably Ubuntu) at some point on my machine, as part of its triple boot. (Currently its only got a single boot, W10..)

    Only got a 58Gb SSD to play with though !
  • 5
    @Nanos Actually, 100 MB of logs because I was too lazy to change the value. I got that from here: https://easylinuxtipsproject.blogspot.com/...

    I'm not a Linux expert, but my Google-Fu is black belt level. ;-)
  • 0
    @Fast-Nop

    Thanks !

    Trouble with a new OS, is I don't know what terms to search for when I have a problem.

    Feels like:

    https://youtube.com/watch/...

    > Star Trek STNG Moments 43

    > Samaritan Snare
  • 1
    @Nanos I'm a ST:NG geek and don't even have to click the link for knowing it's about the Pakleds. ^^

    Actually, I was searching along the lines of things to do after Linux Mint installation exactly because I didn't quite know what's good to do. That blog was a top value hit.

    Btw., I consider Mint as the better Ubuntu, especially the Mint flagship edition with Cinnamon. E.g. the KDE start menu left me scratching my head what that contraption even is.
  • 0
    @Fast-Nop

    Last time I checked, antivirus only worked on Ubuntu.
  • 1
    @Fast-Nop

    I'm reminded there was a time when just seeing a single frame I could tell you which episode. :-)

    I really hated it when digital transmission of the series was introduced, since the old analogue ones had more colour range so you could see the folds in the dark clothing.

    I wonder if 4K TV might one day give us back the picture quality what we enjoyed in the 1960's with our valve TV's :-)
  • 1
    @Nanos You don't need antivirus snakeoil in penguin land, just like you don't need regedit.exe.
  • 0
    Many points are just wrong. Many Windows updates do not require a reboot. And Linux updates do require a reboot as well to replace system libraries and/or kernel. The fact that it just runs fine before reboot does not mean it does not require it for finishing the update.
  • 1
    @iiii Windows updates require a reboot even for non-system updates because Windows cannot replace DLLs which are being used. Linux can do that.

    By consequence, Windows doesn't actually copy the updates into the right place like Linux does even for kernel updates, but into a temporary directory and then copies everything again during the boot.

    What Windows also sometimes has is SEVERAL reboots for updates. That's when they need the updated state for the update stack in order to finish the update.
  • 1
    @Fast-Nop AFAIK, Linux cannot completely replace libraries which are in use on the fly, but can make new processes use new version. But the problem is there are processes which cannot be halted without halting the whole system. They continue working with older library and only reboot will upgrade them. That's why libc update is a common reason for system reset: the main system processes rely on it and cannot be restarted without restarting the whole OS.
  • 1
    @Fast-Nop I agree that Linux modular design is an advantage compared to monolithic NT code of Windows. But it's just wrong to say that Linux upgrades so not require reboots. It just doesn't nag you about them.
  • 3
    @iiii Yeah, kernel updates and glibc require reboots. However, even "reboot" actually means "reboot" under Linux, not "reboot and then hang for 15 minutes minimum". Even hanging for an hour isn't unheard of, though that's not the norm.

    Plus that under Windows, even uninstalling applications can require a system reboot, which is pretty WTF.
  • 1
    @Fast-Nop isn't it for the same reason: something uses the files so they cannot be deleted right away?
  • 1
    @iiii Yeah, I guess that's what MS regards as efficient SW: misdesign it once, annoy the user on multiple occasions. ;-)
  • 0
    @Fast-Nop it's the evil of compatibility I guess
  • 0
    @Fast-Nop

    That is like saying you don't need a mask with covid-19 :-)

    I'd like some protection please !
  • 1
    What is most annoying with W10 compared to any other Windows is it likes to reboot without waiting for you to say so..

    So, that moment you leave to go to the toilet and come back, its rebooted and didn't save your work for you..

    Then spends 22 hours doing a mayor update when you have something urgent that needs doing in less than 22 hours..

    Lately I caught it using its C: drive a lot..

    After reducing the size of its log files, it seems not to do it now..
  • 0
    @Nanos It's more like saying you don't need a mask if you're out in the wild alone.
  • 0
    @Nanos not my case at all. My windis is configured to not do any reboots without explicit directive to do so.
  • 0
    @Fast-Nop

    I'm reminded of someone I knew who was out in the middle of a forest, and wanted to take a dump.

    What could possibly go wrong...

    Apart from the moment he had his pants down, a group of schoolkids and their teacher appeared as if by magic.

    Sadly for him the teacher did not see the funny side and thus started his prison career..

    I'd much rather have a mask and not need it, than not have one, and wish I had taken one with me after the horse had bolted from the stable door.
  • 0
    @iiii

    I keep trying to configure mine that way, listening to all the advice about how to do that.

    And yet still, Windows finds a bloody way to reboot without asking me !
  • 1
    @Nanos if you use anything other than home, then you have access to group policies. There's a policy to restrict reboots if anyone is logged in. Also you can configure other options there as well, like an update channel and getting experimental features, and ability to install everything which does not require a reboot on the fly.

    I've configured mine to use semi-anual channel which is not a "public beta" like it is for most people.
  • 0
    @iiii

    I'm reminded of using the policy editor to stop Windows from installing the wrong graphics driver.

    Then a mayor update came along, and to be fair, it didn't install the new graphics driver...

    It just deleted the old one !

    Which wasn't very helpful, because I had 4 monitors plugged in, but only one worked..

    Do you have 24/7 CCTV coverage so you can be sure after checking a years log that it didn't secretly reboot when you wasn't looking ?

    I've rather given up for now fiddling around trying to stop it, since the built in features are good enough for now.

    I've literately spent weeks trying to get it to behave. (Listened to every expert, done every guide, and still..)

    Even got some software that blocks it apparently via a firewall, and yet still its updating something it shouldn't !

    If I physically bump into an IT expert, I'll get them to have a look.

    Just means, if I'm about to sneeze, save work first !
  • 1
    > she doesn't understand why people

    > willingly put up with Win 10.

    Games !

    And some applications..
  • 1
    @Nanos We have a PS4 for games. No driver hassle - AMD and Nvidia constantly release driver updates to compensate bugs in games, which is pretty fucked up from an architectural POV. And no games that constantly require tomorrow's hardware.
  • 0
    @Fast-Nop Not all of us are rich enough for a console !

    That and a lot of games aren't available on them.

    Well, maybe if you have every console out there. :-)

    I do like them though, great when I visit a friends house whose richer than me !
  • 0
    @Fast-Nop except games for consoles are much more expensive
  • 1
    LOL... my SO likes Mint Cinnamon and took that as inspiration to try mint tea spiced up with cinnamon just to find out how that Linux tastes - as weird as that combo sounds, she likes it!
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