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Very common practice in India. Anyone which an idea or no idea posts a listing on job/intern hunting site and they offer to pay $0 - $30 a month. As a coding test they ask you to build the whole project, even if you do they take your work and reject you.
Sites like AngelList, Internshala or LinkedIn has no standards for such listings. -
The worst part is that this stuff exists because it works. As long as there are people who will settle for more or less anything you will have vultures exploiting it.
Before getting into dev I studied animation where you have a similar situation. You have more job hunters than jobs, and a lot of them are willing to do it for literally free just to get a foot in the door. Especially the fresh ones. I assume it's the same reason you consistently hear how the games industry is one of the worst industries to work in. -
@ltlian I've always been told by the 'recruiters' there are more roles than devs to fill them. If that's truely the case, whilst I understand a company doesn't want a complete fuckwit, they also don't want to fuck with the few devs who do know what they are doing, just because they can pay the fuckwit less on paper - reality is the redoing of the work will cost triple just getting someone in the know to do it in the first place.
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@WhyMe The thing is, companies don't do anything. Executives do stuff, and they will win as long as they have someone at hand to blame when the inevitable happens.
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@uyouthe Yeah. I didn’t want a job and that is basically is what I said to one company interviewing me. They asked me to do a 6-8 hour task. “You could get this job with only a few hours of hard work.” Which triggered me.
“I gave you GitHub and a ton of references. What will six more hours of work show more than the thousands of hours you can already see? If you want me to do some white-boarding or something that takes an hour then sure but I’m not going to work for six hours without some kind of assurance. A competent dev could reasonably assess my code in 30 minutes.”
“Our developers don’t have time to assess all the candidates. Their time is in short supply.”
“Sounds like you need another developer to help them out. I wish you the best in finding the right candidate.” I stood up, shook their hands, said thanks for the interview, and walked out. Their jaws were on the floor as I left. It was really satisfying. -
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@nordboerg That was my point. If they don’t value your work during an interview they won’t value your work in the position.
Things that you should do in an interview: meet the team, go over some code samples, have a Q&A with devs, discuss career objectives, check to be sure the work fits with objectives and skills, and then let them figure out if the fit is right.
Instead I met with some bean counters who asked probably 30 or so applicants for 6-8 hours worth of throw away development work. (210 hours or so cumulative.) I didn’t get to meet the team. I didn’t see anyone that understood how development flow works. When I asked for a dev they basically told me that the devs are too busy slaving over a hot keyboard and didn’t matter in the process.
No thanks. at that point I didn’t want the job and I wasn’t interested in doing their project for them. I’m not going to consider a job unless I can meet the team that I’m working with and see what they think about the job. -
@irene yea I get it, and it's cool. only problem is that in the past few months employers became incredibly picky and unreasonable with their expectations. so playing it cool is tempting, but quite difficult at the moment.
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@nordboerg Hmm. Since COVID our government has switched to wanting all processes electronic. It has been a very high demand time for web developers. Initially the budgets for it froze and developers lost jobs but then it turned into a hiring spree for people that can automate things. I’m surprised something similar hasn’t happened where you are.
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@Root RE: name and shame: yeah - Send it to Joshua Fluke’s cringe YouTube channel or something.
Job interview goes really well. Senior Dev 90-100k.
Ok, so for your "test" write up a proposal for a web based bulk email sending system with its own admin panel for building list, tracking emails, and with reporting.
I write up an estimate. Low ball the absolute fuck out of it because I'm trying to get a job. Know a few good libraries I can use to save some time. Figure I can just use sendmail, or PHPMailer, or NodeMailer for the emailing, and DataTables Editor for a simple admin CRUD with reporting. Write the thing up. Tell them they can have it in LAMP or Node.
Come in at 36 hours.
Then these fucking wanks told me they wanted me to actually do the project.
My exact response was:
"I bill $50 an hour, let me know"
They did not let me know.
Young devs, jobless devs, desperate devs. I've seen a fair amount of this. And for the right job I might go as high as maybe 4 - 6 hours of unpaid work for some "programming test". But please be careful. There are those who will try to exploit lack of experience or desperation for free work.
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