Google should not have this much control over the damn browser market. I wish Mozilla were more powerful.

Need to find a way to fund Mozilla that isn't ... from Google.

I signed up for their VPN if only to give them something.

It's not like Websites only work on Google Chrome, people have chosen it.

Mozilla was more powerful, but delusion of grandeur made Mozilla think that once they were big, they didn't need to listen to their users anymore. Mozilla made war on their users, and the users won, if only by ditching FF.

@F1973 But why DDG?

Shut the fuck up. This whole thing makes me mad as fuck. There is no reason to sue someone for making a good browser engine actually useful and being able to market it.

As if people are held hostage when setting up their new windows pc, opening Edge to enter "Google Chrome download" into bing because they like the browser.

This whole thing is fucken bullshit.

@F1973 I'm not sure I understand you're question.

Google pays Mozilla, yeah I know.

@F1973

Yes.

Do you feel that means they shouldn't have anything to do with Google?

I don't think of that as a requirement.

I like to think I value my privacy, and yet I still use some of Google's products. To me it's not an all or nothing thing, if it was I'd live on a mountain by myself.

Mozilla just need to come along faster and be better, I guess

Just to be clear, I don't hate google. If they made w good browser, they should reap profits.

I just don't like having a market where Google has a monopoly on good browsers. For the sake of the community, we need other companies to breed competition and keep each other honest.

@nitwhiz I don't mind someone making a good browser engine, I do mind it when a company with a very bad influence is behind it and quite effectively lures people into using it.

Also, I don't like it when this company makes its websites/webservices in a way that its only compatible with their own browsing standards, NOT following the W3C ones.

@linuxxx how are you lured into Google Chrome? Tell me for Windows or Linux, whatever you can explain better.

How many times today are we going to have to remind everyone that mozilla is the old big bad and not even modestly better than Google 🤣

@example-user Mozilla needs to fire its complete management. A management whose saalaries exploded while the market share drowned, which basically means Mozilla has been captured by a bunch of plunderers who are incompetent at anything except plundering.

Even now, they're firing Mozilla employees, but shrinking the overblown management salaries is out of question.

mozilla should be more powerful and governments should be using mozilla as it's more secure than any other browser

@F1973 mozilla charges google a lot to keep them as their default search engine

@calmyourtities so if google has a monopoly it's bad, if mozilla has it, it's good?

And how is mozilla more safe, show me any source from post January 2020 confirming that.

My fucken RAM is most certainly not safe from Firefox' embarrassing memory management.

How is it fucking okay how mozilla is just as any other company. If the money is right they get naked - as long as they allow google to buy in to their products it's fucking sassy to say anyone of them is better than the other.

They're all the same but one is especially big. It got big because people chose to use it or chose to buy android phones instead of iphones. And now that's a bad thing. As if google needs to be sorry that everyone keeps making up own w3c standards and not keeping up with the latest state of art.

Btw, I really liked firefox back in the days. I switched because chrome implemented HTML5 and the newest js APIs way earlier and did not use weird CSS prefixes.

@nitwhiz on the pages of quite some Google services you get 'advertisements' for downloading Chrome, I know quite some people who downloaded/installed it just because a page said "this service works better with Google Chrome" etc.

And next to that, Google is introducing bugs into their services which make that you can only properly use them with Google Chrome (sometimes other Chromium based browsers don't even work with those services/sites anymore somehow)

What is so dumb about this whole thread are two things: "Google bad boi" and "mozilla needs more power".

What about microsoft - ah right, they're bad by someones standards, too. What about opera? What about the good old samsung default browsers or maybe the ones Mi is shipped with?

In the end this is all about who lost the game. And saying google bad is just being a sore loser. If this whole thing went a different way, mozilla being sued, think that's good, too?
Why was it okay that nobody sued microsoft pre 2011 for holding 60-70% market share?

There has to be competition. With ms using chromium they more or less exited this game. Opera and firefox have still relevance and should just strive for success, which they actually do. Sad that their fans are sore instead of supporting them.

@linuxxx don't you use no google services? Life is totally possible without google services.

But just after Yahoo! for searching there is now google. And because Dropbox gives you too less free space, Google Drive is used more, and so on and so forth for their other services.

Even if this (in my opinion totally made up) statement about built-in bugs is true let them do so, why the fuck not.
Let them advertise their products within their products.
I don't see why this is luring. It's upselling at best.

@linuxxx Btw, I'm not saying google is good. But I won't say google is bad either. These companies do their things and people chose what seems to be the easiest for them and/or what they already know. Or the defaults, because they don't know shit at all. That's why I see many people still use Firefox, because they know it from back in the days and still want to use it and that's totally fine!

They don't download a whole browser they have to neatly customize again because a website said so, they just ignore these hints.

Sorry for hijacking this thread so hard.

TL;DR: I think this lawsuit thing going on right now is totally unnecessary.

@nitwhiz Microsoft WAS sued, and successfully.

The reasons they exited the game were that Nadella had the brains to understand that
1) MS was too incompetent to make a competetive browser,
2) that it doesn't even align with the current company strategy, given that they had lost the browser war.

Originally, their vision had been a Microsoft controlled internet, that's what they had wanted to achieve with their usual "embrace, extend, extinguish" using IE.

Microsoft has always been a totally dirty and incompetent scumbag company, more so than Google or even Apple.

@Fast-Nop oh shit, didn't know that, should've checked that.

What means successfully here? What was the result?

We still got 11.16% users with IE11.
I don't see any success there as long as this percentage is bigger than 0.

Don't mind me, I'm a pin.

‒ 📌

Edit - Just in case

https://wccftech.com/former-mozilla...

@nitwhiz The result was that they were not allowed to just pre-install IE and call it a day. IIRC, MS also had to pay quite some penalty.

In 2001, IE had 96%, and that brought innovation to a grinding halt because there was only one new IE version until 2006.

@Fast-Nop lol but isn't it, even next to Edge on Windows 10 these days?

Just reading about the case.
"After a tough fight, the government won the case. There is now no browser monopoly." - now that's comedy.

@nitwhiz Yeah, but it's not a monopoly, more like a bad memory of distant days, and only in use with corporate networks where completely moronic wankers had been building shit with ActiveX.

@Fast-Nop we have many business customers, you couldn't have expressed it more accurately.

@beleg "gmail & gdocs started to experience selective performance issues and bugs on Firefox."

Nice tech magazine not backing this up with some code, which would be 100% profilable, findable and presentable to confirm these accusations.

"switched to using a JavaScript library for YouTube that they knew wasn't supported by Firefox."
Wtf? So it's googles fault FF isn't good enough?

@nitwhiz there should not be a monopoly on the web, but if there was i'd prefer mozilla because of what they stand for. sure, they've got a few bad eggs high up, but google is 100% bad eggs from top to bottom.

and i believe that firefox was written in rust, meaning it has better memory management and minimal memory-management security related errors. can you confirm that, @linuxxx ?

let's keep in mind that memory errors make up 70% of chromium's vulnerabilities

@calmyourtities it's partly written in Rust. Not the whole thing.

Doesn't look like 70% to me: https://bugs.chromium.org/p/...

@nitwhiz are you seriously looking through the bugs manually?

no no, let's use common sense https://chromium.org/Home/...

and an article if that's about your reading level https://zdnet.com/article/...

@calmyourtities thanks, that's actually quite concerning and interesting.
even though 70% of 900 is not that much, but that's not the point.

well then it comes down to feeling, i just feel more comfortable with chrome.

off topic: i really should learn rust finally..

@nitwhiz Opera also uses chromium

@calmyourtities Parts of the engine/browser have been ported to rust, yes.

As a web dev, some minor details that makes me appreciate the variety is that FF devTools does have some advantages over chrome devTools
For example
*html inspector clearly highlights which elements have custom event listeners
* css inspector clearly shows rules which are useless
* event listener view shows custom events first instead of a mix of every single default listener, making it hard to find your own ones

Anyone ever heard of the Ecosia search engine 🤣 https://ecosia.org