One of my friends works in NVIDIA and slwas previously a part of the graphics department where she worked on the rtx 3070 and briefly on 3080 card. The funny thing is she gets paid very low (SDE in India) and sadly her monthly salary is less than the price of either of the cards. While she is not keen on gaming, some of her mates are in a similar situation and just dream about buying it.

All I wanted to do was point out the irony wherein people who help make the thing themselves cant afford it.

Brake jobs on an Enzo Ferrari are 24K USD. A lot of the people working on the Enzo cannot afford one either. I work on machines costing half a million dollars or more.

Do you expect each worker in airplane production to afford one?

Not really my point and yours is a rather extreme example @aviophile

@JavaIsLava I think state of the art graphics cards are too expensive and don't fit in my budget either. Not if I want to live in a home and afford to feed family. I could technically buy one, but I tend to lag behind on tech by a few years to save money. State of the art gaming computers really are not worth the money to me.

@JavaIsLava yours is the extreme example I think. Most people work in production of something that they can’t afford. It is norm, not the outlier.

@Demolishun
Difference between a consumable and a business device.

In a previous time there was some random who said that people not being able to buy the cars they worked on was a problem.

@theKarlisK there is a difference there. Rockets are not built for personal use.
Ferraris are exclusive for the select rich.

Gaming is not exclusively for the rich. Almost every game requires a high end graphic card which increases in cost with time as expected.

Regarding your underpaid remark: An SDE in the US can afford an rtx 3080 but one in India can't. No where in the world can anyone afford a fucking rocket.

@theKarlisK Again not my point. True its not necessary. True, its not meeded. What I am talking about is the choice that you can have. Why do people buy a better car than theei previous ones ? Not really needed if your old one works right ? Why do people buy a new phone almost every other year ? Everyone have their own desires. Its not like SDEs are poor everywhere and cannot enjoy having a choice in something that is maybe an unworthy expense.

Anyway, its not like wanting a yatch. Its actually like wanting iphone 12 when your iphone 11 works perfectly fine. Both are for personal use. Both are of the same price range and people do exist who buy phones year after year.

The people who made the sneakers on your feet almost certainly cannot afford to buy them

Man people in this thread are sticklers. There's a difference between a consumer product and a instrument of the business itself. An airplane and a rocket are not products for the end consumer. Further, graphics cards are not luxury items (a G6 is a luxury item, as are diamonds, etc).

The company will inevitably make a surplus of these cards at some point. The least they could do is give a unit to those who developed - if for nothing else, as a trophy and a bonus.

@theKarlisK Needing a 600$ computer is absolutely not the same as "NEEDING" a yacht, what are you smoking?

@JavaIsLava The only thing outsourcing to India has going for it is exactly low wages, and even then, the net benefit is dubious.

@Fast-Nop How low do you think it goes?
The range is anywhere between 4lakhs(5437$) - 60 lakhs (81562$) per anumn. The max being for engf on a very senior post. Companies which outsource, pay around 6-7 lakhs per anumn to engg with 2-3 yrs of experience. Now the thing to know is no good software engg in India will work for that pathetic amount. So companies go around hiring people who do not even know how to a write a for loop. ( I have posted another rant for this too). Thus the problem of quality arises when you try to give an engg of that level a project well above their pay garde.

All top engg in india work for no less than 20 lakhs pa. If they join a company which pays less intially they switch within an year. There have been cases where people hop within months. If you look at some of the people working in indian startups, you will find them to be one of the best in the industry.

@Fast-Nop continuing, of course the net benefit is poor. Ask your company to offer a little more money to engineers (still.far less than what they might pay at your place) if they really want their money's worth.

@JavaIsLava You also have to account for the rank inflation. An Indian junior dev is like an intern, an Indian senior is like a junior.

There are hardly any actual senior devs in India because there is no tech career so that they either quit dev in favour of management as soon as they can, or they quit the country because they're good enough that they don't have to work in India for Indian salaries.

What you get in outsourcing is mostly devs who are either still too junior or too flat out incompetent for either of these moves.

@Fast-Nop btw, some of people working for < 5lpa in IT aren't even computer science engg. Some of them belong to mechanical or even civil engineering :p.

@Fast-Nop true in most cases but not for start ups. While big companies dont pay startups here pay to get their work done. And they are in ambudance right now. Jnr devs get paid almost 2 or 3 times more where as in some.plaves snr devs have comparable income to that of an engg in the usa.

@JavaIsLava Yeah, big Indian companies are even worse because they don't give a rat's ass what the customers say. Smaller companies do care, especially if they only have one major customer.

But while our management keeps staring at the fact that they earn a third of what we earn here, we don't save money. Actually, we wouldn't save money even if they worked for free.

It's just that our engineering has stopped caring because our management doesn't listen anyway. We just keep a paper trail as CYA strategy and let the money bleed out.

To be fair, there are a few really competent people out there, but they're mostly used for directing legions of noobs - the "senior dev turned into manager" thing in action.

And people building nuclear power plants can all afford one on their back yard

@Fast-Nop
Yep. that's the business model.

While I was part of the org, JC Penney axed a team of 30 locals for public e-commerce, and replaced them with 300 onsite from Infosys, with another 800 offshore. The hardware requirement went from a fleet of 20 servers to almost 500, plus Oracle database licenses and fuck knows how much for websphere and endeca.

@Fast-Nop That is the sad truth

@electrineer you can actually build a small nuclear reactor in your backyard. A teenager had done it.

@SortOfTested Infosys is a company which is considered one of the worst in IT here. Not a single computer science student from a good college goes there. As i was saying in my previous comments they generally hirr mechanical, civil, electrical students who have never written any code. They are what we call bulk companies since they hire anywhere between 50-100 people from a single college. There is a running joke in colleges that these companies bring a lorry, shove all the students in like cattle and drive away. They treat their employees like shit.

@JavaIsLava Wow. Indian Coding Concentration Camps.

@Demolishun lol

@JavaIsLava
Yep. I know the score. They, Wipro, tata, IBM etc are just part a larger attempt by international corporations to suppress wages and increase profits. The companies that hire them are just as bad if not worse.

Companies like EPAM, Implenia in eastern europe do the same thing.

@theKarlisK ??? Dude you habe gone all haywire. I am not saying buying a ferrari is worse or the gaming card is absolutely needed. Yatch and ferrari is an unfair comparison because they are for the elite and the rich only. So I compared the gtx to an iphone which ha s a similar price and target audience. Fair game same ground.

@theKarlisK what other purpose does a uatch procide other than luxury and lesirue ? Because I thought the rich buy it for exactly that.

@theKarlisK is got nothing to do with need. You don't really need aferrari or 50 lambos or a yatch. But people buy it right ? Is it a bad thing ? No. People like to have them so they buy them. But comparing a programmer buying an rtx to a rich buying a prosche is not the same. You cannot say two products fall into the same category even though almost everything about them is totally different.

If you dont like the gtx point level woth me on thw phone thing. People do buy a mew one every year even if the old one was perfevtly fine( i have friends who cant afford the stuff so they save for upto 2-3 months). They dont need it roght ? But theyy buy it anyway. Its their choice. Its their vice. Its their guilty pleasure. Call it whatever you want its not wrong to do it or to want to do it. Same goes for the gtx. Similar prices, similar target audience.

It's common.

In my hometown, tea farmers sell the best quality tea at a high price, and then they buy the lowest price and/or quality tea back as the daily use.

Yes, the world is kinda shit. I'm quite fortunate to not be in as bad a situation as many.

@JavaIsLava stickler here. I just find the post badly structured. It is about India’s exonomic situation. Even in the west, there are some consumer products that are not affordable to its “workers” also.

3070/3080 is luxury because those are newest graphics cards with top performance.

Giving 3070/3080 to the workers is also a terrible idea. Who do you think should get? Designers in USA? Factory workers in India? Human resources that hired these people? Janitor in the Nvidia factory? What if people do not want 3070 but cash? See where this goes.

@aviophile holy hell, i agree the post is poorly structured. The point is not in giving the rtx to their employees. You know what, This argument has gone long enough and in a direction i did not expect. I really domt care anymore

@JavaIsLava i wanted to tag junon guy. Answered to him :/.

@Demolishun don't worry, vast majority of gamers lags behind on tech.

@AtuM Born in the USA. Irish descent. I don't buy iPhones (POS, elitist, human rights issues) or latest and greatest video cards. I had to work my ass off to enjoy the lifestyle I have now. Nobody paid for my schooling.

Also, in my town, all the homeless are white. At least the homeless that beg at Walmart. Sketchy as hell too.

@AtuM

The lottery winners in the USA are: people born in non-liberal, non-poor thinking areas. Born in inner city of a metropolis and you believe all sorts of garbage.

@AtuM Bill Gates is not to be looked up to. He had connections and has used his power for a lot of evil shit. I think someone like Tony Robbins is a better example. Another good example is Michael Jordan. He is all about team work (lifting other people up). He worked harder than everyone else. His brand loyalty made him rich.

The game mega rich people are playing goes like this: don't trade time for money. They leverage things. They learn to make money without having to be there. Stocks, bonds, etc are one method of this. There is risk, but there is risk to everything. Software, if done correctly, is another lever. Create a product that spreads its development effort over millions of people. A good product can generate revenue for a long time. It costs zero to duplicate (also a weakness). So manufacturing costs are low once prototype is built.

I say mega rich because anyone born in the USA is fucking rich as hell. In that sense it is a lottery ticket.

@Demolishun That's conspiracy talk. Can you cite how Bill Gates does evil things?

@junon

The Bill and Melinda Gates foundation is responsible for the sterilization of countless of people around the world through vaccines. Approximately %50 of child bearing age women in Brazil are sterile as a result of one of these programs.

Here is a more recent article about the covid angle:

https://off-guardian.org/2020/04/...

I am not going to go into a lengthy argument. Those are tiresome and result in negative feelings. People rarely even want to see the other persons view. Especially when they are keen to whip out the "debunked" or "conspiracy" argument. You can lead people to the data, but you cannot make them think. So if you want "proof" you are on your own.

Hold on, I gotta get ready for the rest of this

Haha Iove me some anti-vaxxer drivel, keep going.

@junon Feigns interest. Retorts with snide comments.

You are truly an adversary of great intellect. I bow down to your omniscience. I shall limp away defeated and shamed.

@Demolishun Thanks!

@AtuM
Anytime I hear someone defending netscape, I can only assume they're not old enough to remember netscape.

Netscape was two things: awful, and expensive. It was $45 back then, assuming you could download it or get someone to give you a floppy with the trial version. Failing that, a boxed copy with a license was $75. The team was led by Marc Andreesen who created the netscape browser and charged $249 for it. He eventually deprecated mosaic and forced his users to pay again for navigator. Real stand up guy.

Then compuserve was another $25/month.

Say what you want about MS, they're generally a shitty company, but please don't glorify Netscape. If it were up to them, you'd still be paying for a browser. Microsoft screwed netscape, netscape was screwing everyone else. The 90s were a giant testosterone fueled dotcom orgy.

@SortOfTested I never paid for Netscape though - I don't remember, maybe I had a pirated copy.

@Fast-Nop
Definitely a way to go. It wasn't hard to crack them. The fact that someone had to though is the problem.

@AtuM

I guess the point everyone making by backslashing the rant is: These last generation cards are not ehat you would call a trivial thing to buy, like a high end Computer, a luxury watch or mid-high car.

Also, there is a thing called saving ir even credit, if you really need the nom trivial thing.

@JavaIsLava "almost every game requires a high end graphic card"

You fell for the PR trap! If you want your games to run at 4k, 144fps and raytraced... Yes, then you need a $1200 card.
I've been playing on a $180 1050Ti for 4 years now and the only game it struggles to run at 1080p, medium/high settings at 60fps is Subnautica. But that game is so badly optimized that 2080s can't run it consistently.

It all depends on what you want from a game. Every modern game looks perfectly fine at medium settings. It's not 2003 anymore where you could literally count pixels in textures. "Ultra" settings from 7-8 years ago are "medium" settings now, which is more than fine for me.

@Lucky-Loek I've played Subnautica with 1050ti and rx580 just fine. There was some very expensive setting which made everything extremely slow especially in the main menu so that I've used the menu as a benchmark for stability testing of my rx580 undervolting.

Also, 1660super is now a pretty good price/performance. It even plays Cyberpunk decently on mid-high settings.