Every 3 years or so I invest in a new iMac. I was holding on for the new M1 IMacs, which are ready to order. So I am trading in my 2017 Imac and guess what I get £420 🍾 trade in value. What I am saying is, they may seem pricey to most people but when you can get a 1/3rd back when you trade in for a machine that has run constantly for 3 years without any issues or downtime that’s a pretty good investment. 👌🏼PS the MacBook pros are shite, only a fool would by one of those😀

I am pretty sure I can sell my laptop with rtx 3060 for 1/3 price after 3 years too. That doesn't justifies high prices of apple products.

1/3 of price is not really much considering it is an Apple product...

Also, I don't really like iMacs, if I had to, I would take the Mini or MBP...but I don't really see a lot of value in using macOS. My coworkers are constantly compaining about updates breaking their stuff and some webdev tasks running very slow.

@hack have a look at the new m1 iMacs it’s worth every penny. I pay for quality and design and stuff that lasts. I also have a 10 year old iMac, they offered £270 trade in for that. If you don’t value style, performance, reliability you can always by something cheaper that’s your choice.

@helloworld lel performance? RELIABILITY?

https://youtube.com/watch/...
https://youtube.com/watch/...
^ have a whiff of these

think different. because if you thought your cpu need cooling think again. and if your laptop loses 50% of performance after running for 5 minutes, youre holding it wrong:))))))))))

The only MacBook I ever owned fried three motherboards. The third one died after the warranty expired and getting it fixed yet again would have been so expensive that I decided to get a new ASUS laptop instead.

Anecdotal evidence, for sure, and I think that specific model was known for persistent motherboard issues, but I still refuse to buy Apple products to this day. I use a company-provided MacBook for work only because they won't let me use Linux.

@helloworld performance? I am sure any random brand pc with same price with a mac have better overall performance. Are you comparing m1 chips to older mac cpus only? If thats the case you are right, they are better than older mac cpus.

https://notebookcheck.net/M1-vs-i7-...

I don't even talk about gaming performance because there is no point comparing something to 0. Don't get me wrong, I don't hate apple products, I hate their prices, lack of gpu and non-customizable design. You are selling your computer to upgrade it, I can buy computer components to upgrade my pc. So no, apple products are indeed pricey.

@hack I have specific needs, I don’t play games. My work is mainly web dev and graphic design. For this I prefer a mac with the great affinity suite of software and nova by panic for coding. They all run great, the iMac new one will look great in my lounge as a decorative piece and not a 90s eyesore. I have bern using Macs for 33 years and enjoyed every minute of it. I pay a premium for the Mac I know, and I could probably get a beige box for cheaper and better spec but I value design and quality. Macbook Pro is still shite though.

@helloworld 90s eyesore? Beige box? Have you actually seen a modern PC in the last two decades?

If you're happy paying an extra 30-40% for an apple logo, then more power to you, I guess. If you've been a loyal Apple customer for over 30 years then there's probably no way to convince you to even entertain the thought that PCs from other manufacturers might be better.

@helloworld you are not paying more for design and quality. You believe you are paying for it. And there is nothing wong with it. Its just personal preference. If you like it, buy it. Thats this simple. But defending apple prices or performance is just being a fanboy.

@bad-frog good old Louis Rossmann.

have the hands on experience with a 2019 macbook air right now, because of a customer. Never used an apple device before. So first, that thing runs hot even when barely doing anything; well not really, but basically there was a browser open, visual studio and unity, all sitting idle. the aluminum piece above the keyboard is basically untouchable. The keyboard in itself is usable, but it's weird, that they have command and option and stuff, instead of ctrl, and alt like everyone else (but that's just my opinion)

The OS has some cool design choices, but also some really bad ones.

1/3

For example, when you install software on windows you just download an msi or an exe and click it. It runs, and asks you to modify the system. On linux you either use some script or straight up download it from repository via some package manager or store where it asks you a password once. On apple on the other hand, you have to download it, then double click to install it, and after that it creates some virtual drive, where you technically already could start it, but actually run into errors, when you want to modify the system with it (for example installing stuff on unity), because you forgot to put the icon into the applications folder, which for some reason copies the already installed application AGAIN?

After that you gradually will need to grant it it's previleges (to use the camera, record the screen etc). Where is that user friendly i ask you? I have to admit, that i like a few features of macOS, but i wouldn't use them that way, since it's not friendly to the user.

2/3

I use Ubuntu MATE for years now, and modified my system to have some of the good features from different systems. And the only one i have from macOS is the dock, which works similarly to how it behaves on macOS, when you have a fullscreen window open.

I have to admit, that if i would use apple privately, that they would very sucessfully keep me pretty much in their ecosystem, since the connectivity between their devices is unmatched so far.

3/3

@thebiochemic to be honest i thought about getting a hackintosh install myself.

this occurred to me after going through a dozen kernels to get amdpro drivers going (i wanted that sweet sweet openCL).

after failing miserably, but succesfully installing ROCm, i gave up because you need PCIe 3+ to get it working and installed windows (im a filthy traitor, i know, i hate myself for that enough already, no need to point that out)

in between i thought about said macos but then i remembered it probably wont support my graphics card, so that was it.

i have to work on macos at my school. at first i deeply hated it. it was like fighting the os to get what i wanted.

especially in the "user friendly" department;
ill always remember one thing:
if you want a shortcut to an app, it takes two clicks. but if you want to make a shortcut for terminal, you have to go through automator and write in their stupid natural language-like script.
(cont.)

@thebiochemic as for their devices, yeah, they better work when you pay 40$ for an usb hub.
but what pisses me off about their ecosystem is that you actually *need to buy apple peripherials otherwise they just wont work. and thats ground for a hard nope from me. im not rich enough to throw money out of the window.

add to that no gpus (i do want my opencl goddamit)
non-customizable design
no user upgrades (as comrade @hack wrote, very important for me, the oldest part in my pc is 10 years old)
overpriced
the worst customer service
and their dumb design philosophy which literally forces a thermal limit on the hardware.

simply put, macintosh is not for me.

their marketing is akin to jaguar marketing in the 90's:
they found that jags dont sell well enough and came up with a brilliant solution: increase the price because they werent status symbols anymore.
the sales picked up shortly thereafter. (not sure about that anecdote, it was given to me as an example during a marketing training)

@bad-frog not talking about mac book pros i already said they are shite twice already. I am talking about iMacs.

Guess I am on my own here 😂

@helloworld it applies to imacs too.
you cant even open the damn machine to clean out the dust, not even mentioning expansion or customization.

if macintosh suits you, what to write, else than more power to you.

its not my case. my machine cost me 570$.
i have an 8 core cpu, an rx 590 8gb and 16 gb of ram. all bought new, albeit at the optimal moment (when new tech comes in)

for 570$ i could buy half a macbook with a quarter (if not worse) of the power my machine has.

i understand some people like apple because of the design or because "it just works". because if you dont stray from well trodden paths, it actually does.

(cont.)

@helloworld but i mess around with ai, vms, i dabble in bruteforcing and like my machine to run smooth as butter.

those are quite intense workloads, and macs are not designed for that.

web design, audiovisual stuff (even tho i heard their marketing forces people to buy new extremely expensive hardware because of compatibility issues, were talking 100,000$ mixing tables and such), and surfing the web runs fine.

and its not because of the hardware thats inside the mac's. its because of their "design". if you make a slim machine obviously you will run into thermal limits sooner than later.

i, on the other hand, removed my side panels to ease heat exchange. im on the opposite side of the users scale. ill take power over design without question, and dont mind investing some tinkering if it provides me that power on the cheap.

as for being alone, you started it, writing about performance and quality. which macs dont have.

@helloworld now a more lighthearted anecdote:
when i was a teenager, i was an avid gamer. and had anger management issues.

i was playing an rpg and played for like 6-7 hours straight. without saving. and then my pc hung.

i got so angry i picked my keyboard, and yanked it so hard the whole pc went along. and since i was in the mood of destroying something, i swung the whole thing over my head, like a flail and smashed it to the ground.

pc was still running, but with a black screen. i powered it down, then powered it up, and it booted like nothing happenned. i doubt you could do the same with a mac:p

needless to say i used Gigabyte's ultra-durable motherboards since then (the mb that was in my rig at that time was an UD too).

latest mishap i had was dropping a piece of tin foil into my power supply, making an explosive short. quite bad too because i shorted the coils directly to the output.

psu completely fried, motherboard unscathed

Macs dominate in Graphic Design industry. Graphic designers don’t fuck about with the OS they just want to design and Macs have always been the best. No question. I guess that’s where I am coming from and benchmarks for the new M1 chips is mighty impressive. For some reason coders like to work on laptops, something i will never understand. Always had desktop Macs and had issue free usage for over 30 years. So I really don’t care if you can create a Frankenstein computer for a few hundred quid, knock yourselves out. if you like fucking about instead of getting shit done.

@helloworld yeah, when ure a webmaster sure you can code on an expensive paperweight.

ur imac doesnt even nvme in 2021. gave me a hearthy laugh.

ssd is a big step up tho, last year it was hdd (facepalm)

@bad-frog Did I say I have an Apple Watch, an iPhone and I’m getting my son a Macbook Air M1. I guess I must be earning more than you then. 😂.

@helloworld lmao it always comes down to earnings with yall apple bois.

keep buying your overpriced gadgets which give your family attention deficit while ill keep writing the frameworks you will use tomorrow.

edit: it was imac 2019. fusion hdd.
32 GB of ssd, 1 TB of old school 7200 rpm hdd.

how do you get shit done when loading anything takes an hour?

@bad-frog Haha, I don’t use frameworks I design and build websites all hand coded. LAMP because theres no need to complicate anything served me well for years. Stay safe.

@helloworld a stack is a framework, appleboi

@bad-frog Ha not really.

@helloworld https://merriam-webster.com/diction...

@bad-frog A software stack generally refers to a set of technologies that work together to support the development, maintenance and operation of software. Stack in this context is a bit of a colloquialism and doesn't have an official definition, but often includes all software that is required for your solution (including the webserver, the OS, any special extensions like memcache etc, as well as developer tools like a tightly coupled platform/language/IDE). Sometimes, the definition might even extend to a hardware stack like Amazon's cloud computing services.

@bad-frog A framework has a more technical definition, and although the term is sometimes used interchangeably with library, a framework is usually distinguished by a property called Inversion of Control. Contrasted with a library, where methods are called by the programmer where needed, using a framework usually means that much of the application functionality is deferred to the framework, allowing the programmer to avoid writing boilerplate code and merely "fill in the blanks", leaving the framework to decide when its appropriate to execute core business logic.

@helloworld do you know merriam webster?
she says its bigger than that, sooo...
yeah, i speak english, not front-end

@helloworld wth is wrong with you front-enders?
always coming with an alpha and omega vibe.

sometimes ure wrong, thats the fastest way to learn.
because you can always count on an asshole to point exactly where ure mistaken

also yay you can mount a lamp stack and write css. now build a 3d engine. because i can install a lamp stack too.

@bad-frog why would i want to do that? You’re the one that can’t accept that I like Macs without taking the piss and trying to prove that you can build a faster computer for less, so fucking what. You’ve been trying so hard to get one over but can’t we just admit that we are totally different people with different experiences and talents and leave it at that. Have a good life in your superior world, your mum will be so proud of you.

@helloworld lol.
literally "if macintosh suits you, what to write, else than more power to you."

@helloworld and yours :
"If you don’t value style, performance, reliability"

macs are factually everything but that.

but you can call me an asshole, i dont mind.
edit: except for style. that would be subjective

also you cant say i didnt try to defuse you. but when gloves are off, off with the gloves

A new PC every three years?!
That is pretty wasteful.

@helloworld i would argue, that macs being the pinnacle of graphic design was like that historically, not necessarily nowadays though.
In one, and only one use case, i would prefer to use an iMac over a similar priced machine, would be heavy (and i mean heavy) video editing (and even that might be obsolete now, though i also have to admit, that i'm not sure if there is an alternative to optane memory). In every other case it literally doesn't matter which OS you use. I do all my 3D, CGI and Music related stuff on my previously mentioned system just fine. The market has shifted years ago.

The professional tools on macOS are great, i don't want to argue about that, but there are pretty good (and often times free) alternatives, that make that whole apple software ecosystem quite redundant.

also to that developers like laptops thing

well .. try to bring your iMac into a meeting to present a live demo haha,
or try to do work at a clients place, far away from your office (which argably might be solved with some remote connection, but would still require some device, to work in)

Lots of Apple hating virgins here.