Whelp I’m glad as hell I didn’t get the heart attack causing COVID vaccine

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    Yep never catch another virus again if you get that vaccine
    Dead people can’t incubate viruses
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    Some people just don't get what "informed consent" means. I have not met a single person who took the vaccine who knows what happened in the animal trials of mrna vaccines.
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    @Demolishun agree, as long as they consent.

    Im not taking it yet, waiting for the novavax, as long as I have that choice to do that im happy..
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    @Demolishun It's not even clear that the heart attacks are related to the mRNA vaccines because you'll always have people with heart attacks, statistically.

    The thrombosis issues with vector vaccines seemed to be more than normal, though.

    On the other hand, Covid-19 can render even young and healthy people down for months, if not longer, with breathing problems, heart problems, tiredness, memory issues. That has also been reported.
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    @Fast-Nop One would compare the rate of the side effect as it ordinarily occurs in the sample demographics and compare against the studied incident of it in people who were vaccinated
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    @MadMadMadMrMim Yeah I guess we'd know that by now, just like the problems with AstraZeneca. Which is exactly why I didn't hurry for vaccination - first see what happens because there will always be enough to line up first.
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    What should really be bringing this into question is this post occurred before

    Hey maybe someone was planning to kill all the normal people which is why I’m surrounded by these whore filth walking about in the right grooves of some cosmic vinyl record labeled “tunes to make you want to kill yourself” or maybe they failed miserably and that is their punishment

    The former is seeming more likely
    Just went horribly wrong
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    @Fast-Nop awaken fellow not stupid person !!! This is not a dream and life does suck this much !
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    @Fast-Nop well leave early they say
    And next time ?
    I’m so ground down from the constant irritation of my trauma that I just don’t hold onto things ahead of time as much
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    @MadMadMadMrMim I've had Covid-19 cases in my family. Ranged from feeling slightly sick, but not worse than a cold, to being in the ICU in artificial coma for fucking weeks. We had already been talking about how to determine when to switch off the machines, it was that level of bad.
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    @Fast-Nop I’ve seen absolutely nothing of the sort is the funny part
    Wish my chomo dad had caught whatever you’re describing
    Ever so familiarity while these same assholes mill about
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    as of 9 apr 2021, 1670 people died from covid *after the vaccine of whom 994 died within 14 days in poland.

    now, this is still less than 1/1000, less than the proportion of people who die from using contraceptive pill.

    however, the official number of people who died from the vaccine is 87.

    so, i think we can safely assume that the numbers of vaccine complications is massaged, worldwide: if people develop covid as a result of these, it is classified as covid death. only the freak occurences are counted as being caused by the vaccine.

    here's the exchange with health ministry,
    all informations are obtained with the polish equivalent of FOIA (for those who by chance speak polish)

    vaccine is shit. it pretty much gives you covid.
    but there's not much to support further speculations...
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    @bad-frog Dying after doesn't equal dying from. Also, are these numbers for mRNA or for vector vaccines?
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    @bad-frog honestly no one seems to be reporting having the flu anymore
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    @Fast-Nop both.

    also dying after should not exist in case of an actual vaccine afaik
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    @MadMadMadMrMim thats another point.

    "but one should verify the efficacy of wearing a mask..."

    ...which is close to nil because you get covid anyways. which is in the same family as bronchitis p.ex (for argument sake. i know its more complicated than that) and uses the same vectors of transmission (blood and mucus. so sexual fluids and aerosols, p.ex when you sneeze, the micro-droplets)
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    @bad-frog AstraZeneca is known to cause thrombosis issues, that's why they stopped using it.

    And no, dying after a vaccine is perfectly normal because people die all the time. It's just not normal when the number of people dying after a vaccine is statistically significantly higher than for an otherwise equivalent control group (age, sex, health status, social class, living conditions) without vaccination.

    And here we run into the first problem: prioritising the weakest people first means that the control group cannot consist of average people, but of other people who already have health issues.

    If you account for that, and end up with "yeah people above 70 with health problems have a higher likelyhood to die soon", that would be hardly astonishing.
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    @bad-frog Masks are not for protecting you. They are for protecting the others. The fact that most Westeners fail to understand this (because that way of thinking is alien to Westeners), unlike say Japanese, is the reason why governments enforce it.

    It's also the reason why Japanese regard us as dirty barbarians.
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    @Fast-Nop except those are people who died from actual covid. tests were taken, and the deceased that constitute those numbers were positive.

    now the curious part is that you see a distribution, which is clearly not uniform, concentrated around the intake of the vaccine. not random.
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    @bad-frog What is positive? They had antibodies that you could find in lab tests? Yeah no shit, that's the point of a vaccination.

    I also have antibodies e.g. against hepatitis A and B, and I made sure to test that after that vaccination.
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    @Fast-Nop lel japs can first fix their legal system then we'll talk.

    belgium is a farce, but its a shinig beacon of enlightening compared to japan.

    also schoolgirl panties vending machines, and pachinko...
    they look shiny and clean, but are as degenerate as the lot of us if not worse.

    as for the masks...
    its complicated....

    its bullshit and its not.

    its bullshit because if one uses the mask properly, it really doesnt change much.

    its hard to make it stick near the nose, so with every inspiration and every expiration youre still transiting unfiltered air.
    and if you sneeze its even worse...
    and that is the actual vector for the virus: aerosol. µdroplets suspended in the air, oftentimes > 15 mins.

    so yeah, its actually more to prevent you from touching your face. but if a droplets gets in your eye you're still gonna get sick... or most likely not because 85% of people dont develop the symptoms...
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    @bad-frog where I am 80% of us are vaccinated, yet the apocalyptic situation you are describing is nowhere to be seen. Guess I am blind.
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    @Fast-Nop look, the numbers are there. so are the symptoms. and actual md's classified the deaths as being caused by covid.

    where we can object, is that the distribution of cases strongly tends to be concentrated around the intake of the vaccine. thats statistics, that we know.

    and so i do.
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    @bad-frog Japanese school girl shit has no relation to the topic. Masks do reduce the aerosols, and they don't have to be 100% bullet-proof. Their goal is not to prevent transmission with certainty, only to reduce it. We're talking about handling the situation at scale, not about providing absolute safety for each individual.
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    @piratefox To be fair, he did clarify that he's talking about 1:1000 odds, not about mass death.
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    @piratefox i am describing < 1/1000 cases.
    more women die from causes directly attributed to contraceptive pills

    but then theres the plethora of people reporting side effects...

    ...and the low mortality of covid to begin with.

    i, as your humble servant, am just doing the math
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    @Fast-Nop 1:1000 is pretty catastrophic to me!
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    @Fast-Nop yes, and everybody has to (had, no more mandatory in belgium outside since yesterday) wear em because theres always that idiot who is sick and doesnt give a fuck so a fine for not wearing a mask will stop him from infecting the whole subway wagon.

    but even then its marginally useful.

    and to be honest i dont really care. i can wear that stupid piece of tissue anytime.
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    @piratefox then look into contraceptive pills bc more people die from those from what i heard. but no one cares
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    @bad-frog I just looked up the mortality rate for Belgium. In 2020, Belgium had 127k deaths, which is 16% more than the average 2017-2019. The population grew from 11.3 in 2017 to 11.5 mio in 2020, which is only 1.8% more.

    Anyway, if 127k people out of 11.5 mio died in 2020, that is 11 in 1000 people annually as baseline. If we attribute the over-mortality entirely to Covid-19, that would be around 17k cases, i.e. 134 in 1000 death cases in 2020.
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    @bad-frog then look into eating uranium, the mortality rates are even higher, yet nobody complains!

    So, we done pulling out irrelevant data trying to distract from the fact our point doesn’t hold? :)

    Newspapers and people are trying to shit on the vaccines as much as possible, if the situation you described was true be sure that everyone would be screaming about it. Somebody in my nation died to the vaccine.

    Big news: they were also taking contraceptives and yet they marked it as a vaccine death! And women tend to die more, so yeah. Questions comes into mind when you talk about statistics.
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    @bad-frog Btw. 11 in 1000 means about 1 in 1000 per month. The vaccinations concentrated on the older and weaker people first, who have a higher likelyhood of dying soon - even without vaccinations. You'd easily get around to 1 in 1000 within two weeks.
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    @piratefox no, i was saying that 1 in 1000 is irrelevant
    calm the fuck down
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    @Fast-Nop youre missing the point.

    you end up with the exact same numbers.

    same group of population (bc actually first were frontline workers, then old ppl but then in EU big stop for the 55+)

    vaccine = covid. or so the numbers indicate.
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    @bad-frog No, the numbers just don't indicate that.
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    11/1000 per year
    1/1000 in a month

    1/1000 in two weeks
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    grouped with ~60% of occurences within 2 weeks of the intake of the vaccine

    but even then the numbers are skewed because you took the numbers from belgium.

    and were talking about poland.

    and they are skewed towards the benefit of the vaccine because poland did better than belgium.

    anyone did better than belgium
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    @bad-frog By the time frontline workers still were first, they also used AstraZeneca which is known to have thrombosis problems. Doesn't apply to the mRNA stuff. And by the time they got around to figure that out, they were also vaccinating old people.

    In Germany, we had whole shifts of essential workers calling in sick after the vaccination - that was with AstraZeneca.
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    @Fast-Nop yes, but in europe vaccinations of old people stopped around feb-march, depending on the country

    around one month into the distribution.

    now were at month 4-5.
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    @bad-frog We had stopped prioritisation only very recently in Germany. Actually, this month IIRC.
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    @bad-frog It's still very difficult to even get an appointment here, and I wouldn't get one over my regular general practitioner because supply is too short.

    Instead, I got one via my company's physician, that'll be next week. Not that their supply is any better, but I won in my company's Corona lottery. Pure luck.
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    @Fast-Nop mrna can have its own set of complicatons.


    im not a woman so i dont really care either...

    and as of now i dont think we could have access to reliable information which could decide that matter in either way.

    personally im very skeptical of all that. either way. and will look into the development of this matter with interest.

    as for the vaccine; fuck them, im not a beta tester.
    fuck off with their fucking informed consent

    if i become handicapped or worse they better pay the fuck up, period.

    and if i have to, ill get the sputnik jab. it'll make me speak russian, and maybe for a bottle the medic will just fill the papers with no jab.

    vaccine is shit anyways and i got the rona twice already so thats my opinion of the jab, obsolete the day it came out since the rona mutated enough for me to catch it twice.
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    @bad-frog I'd rate the beta testing as done already - AstraZeneca failed it while the Biontech stuff didn't. I would have declined a few months ago, though.
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    @Fast-Nop in any case keep us posted.

    ill still cross my fingers for you so that you wont be the 1/1000

    bc it aint that bad but still.
    this smells, the vaccine smells.
    the whole situation smells.
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    @bad-frog Yeah, I usually take vaccinations well. My vax pass is more populated than my ID passport LOL.

    Last year, I took a pneumococci vax - while that obviously wouldn't have helped with Corona, it would prevent a bacterial lung infection as complication on top of a Corona infection, something that was observed in a lot of cases, including the ICU one in my family.
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    @bad-frog The only vax that really knocked me out was the first shot (out of three) against TBE (tick-borne encephalitis) - but I had read up on that beforehand and took it on a Friday. As expected, the weekend was pretty bad.
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    @Fast-Nop yeah, i have more of a "crash test" approach.

    i have been vaccinated but its against tet (should renew that one) and i think hep, something nasty, bc i went to india at a certain point.

    otherwise its full natural.
    i worked in construction for 10 years so i was naturally confronted with pathogens on the daily.
    so since i was vaxed against hepatitis and tetanus, didnt care about much else
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    @bad-frog want me to calm down?
    Sure, I won’t give you more data or try to highlight the issues in your reasoning, you can keep randomly throwing in unrelated stuff like contraceptives (which btw are a well known issue), the Japanese legal system, panties vending machine to get out of the main argument, won’t change the fact that you are an anti-vaxxer :)

    Go Sputnik go, and keep up the good job, the vaccines and the situation is veeeeery smelly. Big pharma, man.

    Btw did you know birds do not exists? They killed them during the Reagan era and replaced them with drones.
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    @bad-frog The tet vax here also protects against diphtheria, pertussis, and polio as added benefit. Some multi-purpose stuff, for free (i.e. via the legally required health insurance).
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    @piratefox Don't forget that Corona vaccinations get you 5G. Which is a big reason why Germans rush to the docs for vaccinations - because the telcos won't get 5G running in this internet shithole. ^^
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    @Fast-Nop yeah… freaking hate not being vaccinated yet, I am tired of not being able to watch videos in 4K wherever I go
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    According to many undertakers they saw a DROP in deaths during the peak of COVID. After the vax they saw a big increase in deaths.
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    @Demolishun according to a study people tend to believe you more if you say “according to a study”, even if you don’t link sources
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    @Demolishun Since I just had looked up data for Belgium, here's a link: https://epistat.wiv-isp.be/momo/

    That doesn't confirm your anecdotal "evidence". Rather, you see a mortality peak in 04/2020 when the first wave hit, and then in 11/2020 when the second wave hit. Note that you don't see any peak in 2021 so far.

    The peak in 08/2020 seems strange, but apparently unrelated to Covid-19 and instead caused by the heat wave.
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    @piratefox As opposed to "everybody knows" which the masses subscribe to. If the masses believe and thing and its wrong, I am wrong by consensus. I firmly believe the masses are mislead. The curious part is the masses tend to defend this ignorance.

    "The Matrix is a system, Neo. That system is our enemy. But when you're inside, you look around, what do you see? Businessmen, teachers, lawyers, carpenters. The very minds of the people we are trying to save. But until we do, these people are still a part of that system and that makes them our enemy. You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inert, so hopelessly dependent on the system that they will fight to protect it."

    Didn't realize until this year the Matrix was a documentary.
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    @Demolishun they are the same thing: poor rhetoric used when you have no data to prove your point.

    The only thing which changes is the target audience. Just like our frog friend over there trying to confuse the water throwing in more arguments.

    But hey, I guess I can’t argue with Neo over here 😩
    My life really sucks, it’s so full of people who are above the system or that see it in their wholeness and yet I can’t help but stick with the suckers who use data and question their knowledge. Really wonder why with all of these people being better than the system life still sucks… but what do I know, I am just a poor sheep not ready to accept the truth!
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    @piratefox so,
    i made a back of the envelope calculation with some official numbers i put my hands on, and:

    1% get covid after 1st dose of which 4% die
    > 0,040 % mortality (3k ppl)

    0,28% get covid after 2nd dose of which 5% die
    > 0,014% mortality (0,5k ppl)

    sure makes for a less impactful argument, but then

    as of today:
    2,8M cases and 74k deaths
    > 0,027% mortality covid vs 0,036 vaxines adjusted.

    and more than half of the cases happen within 2 weeks of the innoculation.

    its the fucking same im telling you, if not even more shit because i factor in only the people who got symptoms and got to the doctor, and then tested positive

    https://nczas.com/2021/05/... (mid page, scan of paper form the ministry)

    (transcript of a "FOIA" request for the fact that 60% of people got sick within 2 weeks.)
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    https://se.pl/wiadomosci/newsy/... (paper from the same period bc transcript is weak.
    says that more than half of ppl got sick less than two weeks after taking the vax

    can find more of those.

    but fucking took me hours
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    @bad-frog Only that the death rates for Belgium show no peak since the vaccinations started this year while they did show the first and second waves. Strange that with the mass vaccinations going on, there's nothing visible. Maybe because there is nothing to see in the first place.

    Also, I took the numbers from Belgium because that's the country you mentioned first, and because it doesn't really matter.
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    @Fast-Nopyeah, its poland not belgium and you wont see a spike if its the relatively the same. if its not orders of magnitude you wont get a spike. especially since you have to factor in herd immunity and summer so youre in a downward trend to begin with
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    @bad-frog Your claim: the vaccinations give you Covid-19!

    Fact: The Covid-19 waves did show in the death rates. The vaccinations don't.
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    @Fast-Nop you got the bare numbers this time.

    0,027 vs 0,036.

    its within statistical noise id say
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    @bad-frog Yeah, and the death rates also just don't confirm that there's anything going on. See the link I posted: https://epistat.wiv-isp.be/momo/

    So, as I said, there is nothing reported because there's nothing to see in the first place. Except AstraZeneca, but that was reported.
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    @Fast-Nop yeah, belgium is a special case

    dunno if it holds today but belgium had a mortality rate 4x bigger than poland a few months back

    also belgium massaged their numbers.
    its supposed to be way higher.
    belgium is a complete fuckup of a country on so many levels...
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    @Fast-Nop like i wrote, mrna has its own set of quirks, but i dont know enough to get me going in that direction.

    smells fishy tho...
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    @bad-frog That assumption doesn't hold water. They may massage the attribution - but even if you look at the chart while ignoring the blue/orange, and just the numbers, you should notice something.

    Also that 16% more died in 2020 compared to 2017-2019 while the population rose only by 1.8%.

    Unless you want to make the claim (if so: source?) that Belgium reports ten thousands of people as dead who are still alive, or that Belgium had tens of thousands of people who died before and had been reported as still living, the data don't support massaging.
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    @Fast-Nop hmm if you have a way of recovering the official data like from google a few months ago you could see that

    like the "wayback machine" or something...

    or i should dig reaaaaaallly hard this time bc it was mentionned in the news that "the numbers that have been reported were high bc suspect cases were counted too"
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    @Fast-Nop its like it went to a certain point and they went "nah, thats too much. remove a few k's"

    i think it was around may of past year
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    @bad-frog You could see what exactly? Different death cause attribution? People who first died of Covid-19, and then suddenly were booked to something else, or the other way around? Entirely possible, but that was not my argument.

    Tens of thousands in the overall death statistics added or removed, like 16% of all death cases in a whole country? You'd better have a source more solid than "somewhere on Google some time ago, there was something".
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    @Fast-Nop yeah, tomorrow.
    its 01:40 i was supposed to work on my assignments instead i spread "conspiracy theories"

    belgium is a whole other beast my firend

    its still a monarchy. skeletons are burried deep, veeeery deep.

    but mostly im too tired to dig for that one. tomorrow. cya:)
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    @bad-frog Yeah OK CU - and the pun with the skeletons in the cellar was spot on, literally, but not tens of thousands. Not even in Belgium. ;-)
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    @bad-frog you are claiming stuff (the vaccines are dangerous) -> you have to bring the proof.

    @fast-nop wish I had your patience/force of will… I just give up on people who claim something and ask you to prove they are wrong instead of proving themselves right… and ofc when you invalidate their thesys it doesn’t count.
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    And btw., of course the death cause attribution is wonky because it's often hard to tell cause from coincidence. E.g. if someone with terminal cancer contracts Covid-19 and dies, does that count as dying with or due to Covid-19?
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    Someone TLDR this please
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    @theabbie from what I gathered:

    bad-frog is saying that the vaccine is causing death without very much proof

    piratefox is fed up with bad-frog

    fast-nop is refuting stuff from bad-frog
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    I kinda skimmed through it though and it's also 1:16 AM so
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    @Nanos The smoker study was a preprint without peer review, and it has been pulled back because it did not disclose that it had been paid by the tobacco industry. I as smoker didn't find the study's claim believable in the first place.

    For instance, the claim that vaping in particular would have a protective effect was in fact based on another correlation: older patients are at risk, but those who vape are mostly young people.
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    @Nanos wouldn’t that be interesting

    What sorts of autoimmune disease hiv or the genetic diseases that eat a persons own organs or hair follicles ?
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    Btw., here the numbers from Israel: 148 cases of heart muscle inflammation among 5.4 million vaccinated people. That's 2.7 in 100000 people.

    For comparison, 10-20 in 100000 are the normal annual background cases, often in relation to a virus infection such as the regular cold - or, for that matter, the actual Covid-19 disease. It's usually not a damage and heals quickly if you avoid doing sport in that time.
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    Wow this has to have been my most popular post heh Why is it always revolving around some dumbass buzzword like covid ?

    Maybe if I posted tits someone would comment like they did about the guy legs that are supposedly womens lol
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    @ostream I took social statistics

    The idea is that if you model your sample after a real population keeping subject variables and other factors as similar as possible to the generalizable population that differences between the sample and the population of significant enough may in fact illustrate a real difference that is being caused by or contributed to by the only different factor that is shared by them.

    Therefore if the condition being illustrated in an elevated level of prevalence between the general population and the sample it lends support to the idea that the changing factor contributes to or causes the difference.

    So if young people who don’t take the medicine did not have a heart condition and suddenly they do the general population could be looked at as the control group.

    If such a suspicion exists then a randomly sampled set of the same should indicate the same effect since in this case giving the medicine to healthy people to see..
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    @ostream if they illustrate the same effect would be deemed unethical and you’d have to approach for a descriptive statistics approach rather than an experimental design

    And well a large population being handed a miracle drug starting to show the same problem when they were otherwise healthy and did not have any warning indicators like a genetic issue or predilection towards heart problems is a pretty big indicator .

    It’s like saying people who get cancer from radioactive exposure need more study
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    Come on I said this before the last time these bastards were working the same farsical storyline for no reason
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    @MadMadMadMrMim Basically you didn't take any statistics because these would contain numbers. You just freaked out at whatever shit is going around on social media.

    Apart from the Israeli numbers from above, which don't support your claims, here are some other pieces.

    Mortality of Covid-19: difficult to nail down because of the asymptomatic cases, but believed to be around 1%. That's 1000 in 100000. That's the base risk to compare vaccination against. Killed people, that is.

    Then some real life perspective. Road traffic fatalities Germany in 2019: 3.7 per 100k inhabitants. And that's dead people, but the cases of heart musle inflammations were not killed. So let's take injured people in road traffic: 468 per 100k.

    Yet, nobody panics when leaving home. This is life's normal and accepted background risk.

    So vaccinations are not a considerable risk, but the other hand, Covid-19 is a lot more deadly than road traffic.
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    Conclusion: it's not just the numbers that matter - to use them as basis for rational decisions, you have to set them into perspective and understand what they mean.
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    @Fast-Nop well mainly it’s because I know the way that a particular group of people after three or four iterations of this same shit have tried and succeeded in making society a joke over and over and the way they glamorize their attempts by trying to back things up with statistics and other media that are unverifiable by the average person in an attempt to pull off high level fraud.

    Nice try though
    You know we’ve already been here before and that this already happened cleared itself up and a certain subculture of garbage just went through the same motions all over again

    A for effort though
    Not sure why

    Qui Bono however
    An Economic analysis would indicate that if you account for power and lack of travel during this time period
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    @Fast-Nop how was his handjob btw ? Sorry to say I don’t really give them since I spent a long time period having my knob polished by young women of the same Ilk when they were distracting us. So being 50 and inexperienced i don’t know how it would be received. Unless you people are still jerking off to your own murders which you all consistently perpetuate all around me by doing the same thing based off lies over and over again
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    So I mean it’s almost like I gave one by proxy using your hand heh

    Oh what joy
    My mental prowess being put to such a use. At least it’s being used for something other than perpetuating the same deceit over and over assuming they’re not bots now
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    @MadMadMadMrMim Now you're just talking gibberish again. Talk with your doc to adjust your pills better.
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    @Fast-Nop *grins* give me the death of raper and wrong doer brought about with these hands ! For god I have been thus inspired once more !
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    @Fast-Nop I’m fucking Napoleon on natural stilts ! Lol
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    I think that guy wants beat with his own cane .... hahaha
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    @ostream well one would hope a significant RR would be encountered before someone tried to generalize the results
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    @ostream yes well the problem is this is not a statistical problem if the whole mess is fake and every exaggeratedly stoked wannabe powerful idiot childishly claims the opposite for some reason over and over and over again while they erase and waste my time and their own well heh
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    @ostream its like arguing about statistically studied cases of kryptonite exposure
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    @ostream Worse, the data that do exist refute the claim.
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    @Fast-Nop Who collected this data ? :P I have, as I said not seen a single case of Covid, all the people are still alive that always have been and I've been in places with ALOT of people wandering around. Not a single sick one.
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    so, im bacc

    didnt think this thread would turn ito such a shitstorm, but hey, ere we go again:


    your numbers from israel count the people who werent tested positive for covid and died anyways. != people who died from covid after taking the vaccine.

    its still 0,036% (vaccine) vs 0,027% (covid) mortality, *ignoring that most people dont show symptoms at all, so arent taken into account in these statistics.

    thats based on poland's numbers because my country is so kickass that you have full transparency, given that one of our citizens is willing to ask the questions.

    god fucking bless poland. not many countries have, in their constitution, the obligation for every citizen to defend their country.

    obviously, the law follows that line of thought, as made evident here.
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    @bad-frog I'm from the USA

    constitution ?

    whats that ? LOL

    I heard we had one it just doesn't seem well written or very effective when its not wielded by rich or high profile people heh.
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    yeah, you're supposed to look into everything with a skeptical eye.

    thats what democracy is based upon.

    everybody has a say and are free to disseminate their opinions.

    might sound like an asshole, but i mean that as a compliment.

    and, as usual in our trade (mine in the future), if we lack the knowledge, then we learn it. simple as.
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    @theabbie tldr of my points:

    i made a back of the envelope calculation with some official numbers i put my hands on, and:

    1% get covid after 1st dose of which 4% die
    > 0,040 % mortality (3k ppl)

    0,28% get covid after 2nd dose of which 5% die
    > 0,014% mortality (0,5k ppl)

    sure makes for a less impactful argument, but then

    as of today:
    2,8M cases and 74k deaths
    > 0,027% mortality covid vs 0,036 vaxines adjusted.

    and more than half of the cases happen within 2 weeks of the innoculation.

    its the fucking same im telling you, if not even more shit because i factor in only the people who got symptoms and got to the doctor, and then tested positive

    https://nczas.com/2021/05/... (mid page, scan of paper form the ministry)

    (transcript of a "FOIA" request for the fact that 60% of people got sick within 2 weeks.)
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    @bad-frog My numbers from Israel didn't count ANYONE who died. Please re-read.

    Also, you don't get Covid from mRNA vaccines because getting the disease would require the virus RNA - and that, as complete set, is only found in vector vaccines.

    You may, however, contract Covid despite being vaccinated because no vaccination is 100% proof.
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    fucking thread grown waaay out of proportion

    you guys are serious?

    on one hand we have people who desperately try to convince others that my numbers dont add up despite me giving all the sources, on the other, plenty of you folks dindt really look into the biggest thing of our lives (yet).

    i made my own opinion already months ago.

    i lacked knowledge, so i fell back onto what i know;
    what we all know:
    idk, maybe because im polish (pretty obvious by now, dox me if you can...), and so i had access to other kind of numbers, more direct, more statistically meaningful, but then if you dont have access to those in your country, its a big problem!

    you know what, im drunk and i dgaf.

    get your ack toegether and move your fucking brains.

    our fucking future depends on it, fucking beyond ourselves.
    what we will leave will be what the next generation builds upon.
    the fuckin fuck!

    im an ex construction worker and i see that.

    how the fuck yall big brains fucking miss it???
  • 0
    @Fast-Nop we were not claiming you get covid from the vaccine.... at least I wasnt
  • 0
    @Fast-Nop2 points:

    1. youre not supposed to get the vaccine during or shortly after having covid.

    2 you get a distribution of more than 60% of covid cases caught after the vaccine within 2 weeks of said vaccination$

    im genuinely waiting for you to explain that.

    im all for whats true.
    you straighten my viewpoint out, im all for that.

    fastest way to learn is be wrong.

    but this aint it chief.

    between both of us, its your turn to provide numbers. and mine to shot those down.

    because statistics on complications outside catching covid especially from israel, well, that aint it chief.

    wrong statistics, wrong country.
  • 0
    @MadMadMadMrMim Yeah I'm not sure whether @bad-frog really implied that, or whether the claim was more like "vaccinated and still fucked up".

    In the latter case: obviously, these people are most likely to die even without vaccination. People with fucked up immune system, or on immune suppression meds, will both respond poorly to a vaccination AND also be particularly likely to die if contracting the actual disease.

    That's a common causal factor in this group: no working immune system.
  • 0
    @Fast-Nop also, since we're at it,

    here, have a whiff of this:

    its what we chatted about most recently
    even the belgian equivalent of CNN speaks out now.
    and dont "i dont talk french" to me.
    youre part of the diaspora.
    find someone who will translate it to you
  • 0
    @Fast-Nop dont à propos me, answer my questions if you are so sure about those answers

    dont pâthos me, its an insult.
  • 0
    @bad-frog Well, a vaccination in general only becomes actually effective two weeks AFTER the injection, so you don't have protection WITHIN two weeks. That's no news here.

    Then consider mass gatherings with long waiting queues inside buildings to get a vaccination, and you can see where this goes.

    Also, "wrong country" is not acceptable because the virus doesn't discern between countries. If anything, learning from other countries' hits or misses would be the smart way.
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    1, how comes 60% of people get it within 2 weeks then?

    2, israel has a strong central power and a very tight-knit community (are you a "sayanim"?)
    you might want numbers from a more democratic country than china...

    except if china had slaves...
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    ow, my bad, china has slaves, they are called uighurs...
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    so, are we talking as intellectuals, or are we doing politics?
  • 2
    @bad-frog You don't get the actual Corona from the mRNA. What you can get are some symptoms because the immune reaction gets going, that's the whole point of a vaccination.

    Vector vaccinations may be a different thing if the material isn't properly inactivated. Also, since actual complete virus RNA is injected, a PCR test may hit in positive, that's no surprise.

    The other factor, I already wrote that: mass gatherings in waiting queues. That's a reason why I waited until summer where the general spread would go down.

    And no, the country is irrelevant to this question because virus, inactivated virus RNA, and mRNA have no connection to the political system of a country. The human body works always the same.
  • 0
    @Fast-Nop fair point.

    but dat rna vaccine aint supposed to become the real thing.
    and then someone would have to develop symptoms of pneumo-tracheal whateverthefuck smort name for your lungs rotting the fuck up to get classified as covid...

    and then the numbers...

    more mortality then natural covid...

    without taking into account natural resistance because "coronavirus"-es are cause for bronchitis btw. and SARS.

    so yeah. vaccine = coronavirus

    i got it twice alrdy so fuck on my behalf....
  • 1
    ps. im drunk as fuck you wont get much more from me.
    next episode: tomorrow (or rather in two days bc the interaction is so fucking depressing sometimes that i have to hard reset with hard liquor)
  • 1
    all in all use your fucking brains bc whats's at play is not our future.

    its the whole family's future.

    peace the fuck out
  • 1
    @bad-frog That's what I did, and three months ago, I was on the "wait and see what happens" side. Glad that I did because that way, I escaped AstraZeneca (vector) which has worse protection, heavy side effects, and even more complications (thrombosis) than Biontech (mRNA) so that AstraZeneca would have been a bad deal for me.

    Obviously, both companies are primarily after their own profit, but that's the same with everything else, from the vodka you drink to the computer you use. "Their" interest isn't aligned to yours, but "their" offer may still be.

    Na zdrowie!
  • 2
    @Fast-Nop friend, im all drunk with cheap ukrainian vodka. im out.

    ill answer tomorrow bc the answer needs neurons, which i currently dont have access to...
  • 1
    @Fast-Nop human body works the same, but political systems influence the availability and quality of information available.

    p.ex: if you were to believe the chinese, they had ~4,6 k deaths...

    ...in a 1,5B ppl country.

    also, having the PCR test positive -myeah, but you still get the same mortality for covid- those very symptoms, and that very same immune response.

    ...a similar mortality...

    in the end i dont care if whats causing those is different in cause than natural covid, because in effect these are pretty much the same.

    im not saying that the vaccine is klaus schwab juice made for "killing people".

    im saying that its a big fuckup. its evident everybody was caught with their pants down, but thats what happens when you tolerate lobby groups (legalized corruption) and you privatize healthcare.

    but then it woudnt surprize me if there are ulterior motives behind all this circus.
    and if it was done right, those motives will become apparent only in the next generation... (cont.)
  • 0
    @bad-frog there are ulterior motives behind this shit.
  • 0
    ...and thats why i say we shouldnt dismiss any theory, as fringe as it might be, given that the actors involved lie and hide information, and that it remains a theory as long as sufficient elements have not yet surfaced.

    i mean, what the absolute fuck, WHO?

    you forbid autopsies, and the use of hydroxychloroquinine, a drug sold over the counter to end up with giving zinc+vit c, plugging up a respirator and make notes how people die.

    its like if you had a confirmed druglord and someone ratted out that also murdered someone.

    you wouldnt put them on the chair bc of suspicions, but such allegations warrant all the scrutiny in the world

    you dont convict them
  • 0
    @bad-frog Strangely enough, everywhere else on the world, it has been shown over and over that a vaccination does reduce the odds of a severe contraction by around 90%. Of course, only after some weeks.

    The mortality is not the same because a) the odds of having a very mild disease (or no percetible disease) increase so that these patients fall out of the stats, and b) the odds of a severe disease decrease. Among those who still get the severe form despite vaccination, the mortality may indeed be the same, but that conditional probability is not the relevant number to look at.

    If that is all different in Poland, maybe Poland has been doing something wrong. Like cramming people into indoor queues while waiting for the vaccination, thus making the vaccination itself a spreader event. That would of course hit in before the vaccination becomes effective and then have the same mortality.

    Or having spreader events within the weeks until effectiveness, like attending church services.
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    as i wrote,

    as rationnal peopl, we cannot condemn a percieved crime without proving it.

    it is sad, but if anything, it will become apparent with the coming of age of the next generation.

    bc if there were ulterior motives, the only way to control the outcome is with the vax.

    bc thats the only thing you truly control- i mean even the bildebergs of this world could have caught the coof, by accident.
    and they dont want that, so if ulterior motives did exist, causality can be established thanks to the vaccine bc its the vax that will be the actual tool.

    "create the problem to make your solution desirable"

    but you cant control a plague.
    a vax, however...

    and we will have to wait. bc it could have been genomic therapy, which will become apparent when the next generation procreates.

    bc there's a thing called recessive genes, and not everybody is gonna get vaxxed anyways.

    fuck, if done really well, it would take several generations to actually take effect
  • 0
    @Fast-Nop no it doesnt.

    and poland is a democratic country, as opposed to the rest of the EU.

    check out the story arc of a certain Dr. Didier Raoult.

    ex french chief virologist from like 2-3 years ago.
    chief of universitary hospital of marseille

    france doesnt have such tools of power as the usa for instance, so that whole situation became a fucking mess.

    didnt look into in the past few months, but last time i looked, french govmnt is gonna get sued for manslaughter by negligence (the retirement homes shenanigans, just like cuomo in the us)
  • 0
    @Fast-Nop by democratic i mean ppl in poland do care.

    its even in the law.

    our constitution says every pole has the obligation to defend his country. i dont know if its the case elsewhere, but i believe in usa its not...
  • 0
    @bad-frog Whatever "democratic" has to do with "people crammed in indoor queues at their doctor" or "people spreading the virus when attending churche service". In particular the latter would not be astonishing in a Catholic country.
  • 0
    @Fast-Nop we had extremely strict measures.
    and i believe we're amongst the counties that dealt reasonably well with the coof (lel belgium)
  • 0
    @Fast-Nop and dont thrash religion like that.
    it is a powerfull tool. also by the same logic muslim countries should be hit even harder, but they weren't.

    youre just regurgitating what you have been told to think.

    also religion has deeper implications than you would believe, especially in poland.

    its much more nuanced than what you assert.
  • 0
    @bad-frog Muslim countries have a completely different age pyramid - of course they're hit less.

    And yes, one of the consequences was that super spreader events still took place en masse because people couldn't possibly just pray at home and make the church service donation online (in Poland, the priests are paid through the donations).
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    1) "muslim countries have a different age pyramid"

    yeah in the 30's its pretty much the same.
    in europe it might be inflated with the old fucks but it doesnt account for an order of magnitude of difference.

    like with marroco:

    as for "super spreader events", i have to ways to shut that down:

    2) in poland, being christian is like the american pledge of allegiance. you dont do it because you believe in it, you do it bc poland fuck yeah.

    and its because fucking prussians forbid us from speaking polish, but the pope intervened so that we could speak the language in the church.

    so yeah... superspreader whatever
    DW shows us like from the stone age, but you still have oktoberfest so fuck off

    we had superspreader events, but those were in the south, bc we still have mines, but even then...

    >>>the mortality is independent of the spreading probability<<<<
  • 0
    I'm losing braincells reading some of this
  • 1
    @EthanSnowy lel so why you keep reading it?

    add something to the discussion or gtfo

    dis aint twatter. say actually something or lurk more
  • 0
    @bad-frog Just for your information: the Oktoberfest 2020 was cancelled, and 2021 has been announced as cancelled, too. Just like all other festivals, such as Wacken Open Air which was instead held online. You know, some people do realise that mass gatherings aren't the smartest idea during a pandemic.

    As for the mortality, see above: wrong group selection, hence meaningless numbers.
  • 0
    @Fast-Nop is it?

    basically if youre young you dont get the corona,
    and if you squint a lil marocco = poland except they procreate a lot more
    and seems we had a baby boom at some point
    and we have a longer life expectancy

  • 0
    @Fast-Nop ~30% above 50 for poland, ~20% above 50 for marocco.

    yes, there is a difference, but its not an order of magnitude
  • 0
    @Fast-Nop holy fuck 38% for poles over 50

    were fucking dying wtf
  • 0
    @bad-frog I wouldn't expect Marocco to even have a lab infrastructure for testing, and neither an administration for reporting. That's also different from Poland.
  • 0
    @bad-frog I get a notification about every 5 seconds because you guys keep talking lol
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    how the fuck did the world get this scewed up in the first place ?


    I would like to leave the country again to verify everywhere is just as retarded as here, because I don't believe it.
  • 0
    @Fast-Nop fun fact:

    accounting for the population pyramid with 50 years as threshold, i got these numbers:

    38% of poles above 50
    22% of moroccans above 50

    cases/deaths :
    m : 524,475/9,217
    p : 2,877,819/74,626

    it makes for:
    m: 0,017%
    p: 0,025%

    morocco had 0,68 of our deaths
    but they have 0,57 the amount of old fucks we have
  • 0
    @Fast-Nop i mean even with a lesser degree of testing, the dynamic is pretty much the same, given that we set the threshold at 50 years age

    could cite belgium as a shock argument but its lame.

    everybody did better than belgium.

    anyways, im sure we would find the same dynamic in germany

    my point being: poland is a good representation of the nubers and super spreader events are not statistically significant.

    1, bc DW always makes us look bad

    2, bc the nature of polish approach to religion isnt represented by a small minority of our people
  • 0
    @bad-frog I'd also think that Marocco's hospitals are a lot worse than in Poland, generally worse nutrition, and that Marocco's reporting is less reliable in the first place.
  • 0
    @Fast-Nop sure, why not even if you'd think an ex-american colony would be better organized but lets not thrash too much moroccan health system.

    i know these people (plenty of morrocans in belgium) and once they get into healthcare, you can be sure they are good ones.

    plenty of rotten apples but considering how things work back there, the bad ones usually chose a different line of work, like policemen (you usually dont want to deal with them. also weird stuff in the law...)

    wouldnt surprize me if it was just a matter of dying within a hospital, and getting the subsequent test and dying in a village.

    wouldnt surprize me either if their old ones would be more hardy than ours, but are over reported bc suspect death-> bring to hospital for tests

    both could counter eachother... hard to tell from numbers alone...
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    @Nanos sounds interesting...

    mind that the lower mortality from flu might be caused by the use of masks, isolation and hand sanitizers.

    however, if you cross-reference that with the efficacy of said measures... and im sure somone made a paper on that somewhere... if you get the same numbers as for the flu it may be another argument against covid measures.

    i posit that if you see a decrease in covid cases despite re-opening, as is often the case, it is because of herd immunity.

    so the measures are inefficient to begin with.

  • 0
    you know someone once told me that the covid vaccine was an experiment in giving people with no cancer symptoms, doses of chemo every so many years to see whether it would stave off cancer later.

    or likely knowing these fucking fucks just to see what it would do, like the tuskegee experiments they so often have replicated the ethics of, for their herd management experiments.

    and that would kind of explain the continual reproduction of this time period.
  • 0
    Had my vax yesterday. Slight ache in the arm, slight headaches, and a bit tired. Still no 5G, and I still hate Windows.
  • 0
    @Fast-Nop guy I talked to said he was completely wiped out and lethargic after getting the shot
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