Do you hate java for something more than verbosity ?? :/

Slow.

I would say as fast as any mid-level language :/

I have seen better stacktraces. But its okay.

@OfficerHalf portability has a cost. Besides, most environments where Java is used don't really focus on pure speed.

variables in lambdas must be final

No accessors.

It isn't able to make full use of its own VM

(Kotlin has operator overloading, extension functions (functions defined for another class), intrinsic null safety, first class functions, and the list goes on, java has none of that, even though they run under the same environment)

I actually kind of like Java, as long as I don't have to code a UI in it... Holy spaghetti monster UI programming in Java sucks!

I don't mind Java. The Java apps I've seen in production though tend to be hard/expensive to scale requiring tons of memory and processing power.

At work we have Java apps and Node apps. The apps are pretty different so the comparisons aren't super valid, but here's a list of differences of the production environments:

- For the Java apps, they have to have a new app instance per customer.
- Each running instance for the Java apps requires at least 8GB of RAM and 4 fairly decent CPU cores.
- 90% of our operational costs are eaten up by the costs of running those servers alone, and adding more customers increases that cost in a way that doesn't scale well.

- On the node side, we have a scalable cluster that runs between 2-4 instances that handle every customer.
- The servers are single core and use less than 1GB of RAM
- The cost the of running our apps is about the cost of some of the licenses required by whatever IDE that the Java Developers are using.

^ referencing my comment above:

I know not all Java apps end up that resource heavy, but in my admittedly limited perspective of the Java world, all of the Java web projects I've seen have ended up that heavy

@tytho I actually think that's very common for most programming languages. It's easy and cheap to throw hardware at a problem, until suddenly it's no longer easy or cheap.

@Redrield that has literally nothing to do with the VM. Kotlin achieves this by doing those checks with their compiler. That's why compiling Kotlin takes longer than Java compilation. Both Kotlin and Java have the same set of instructions available in byte code and both use the same.

@OfficerHalf Java gets almost to the performance of C code. They introvert a lot over the years. Speed is definitely not an argument against Java. JiT compilation does a lot of speed improvements behind the scene.

@SirWindfield maybe it's possible, but that doesn't mean it's actually used that way. Java is a very enterprisey language, and the applications developed with it tend to be resource heavy behemoths. Enterprise also usually means not using the latest version of Java, which contributes to the sluggishness.

@OfficerHalf but that is not the fault of the language, it is the fault of the developers using it then.

I learned at least three things i didnt know just by reading the comments...ftw devrant

@architect share them with us :D

I hate it for attention