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I mean, you don't have to pick a side any time someone asks you either. You don't have to have opinion on every single thing, in fact it's better if people that have no idea what they are talking about just said that they don't know rather than pick a side on completely arbitrary estimation.
Saying "I don't know" or "I don't care" is a perfectly valid option, in many cases preferable over pretending like you know what you're talking about. If someone asks me who I stand with, I'll just tell you that I don't really care about either side, I have enough to worry about in my own life. -
@NickyBones you missed the pedophile game engine guy. That was epic.
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A simple breakdown:
Israel values life - they don't want to kill civilians. They measure sucess by how few civilains were hurt during a fight. Israelis reapect life, and will not kill indicrimenatly. Israel teach peace in school.
Palestinians - Don't care about life. Not thier own, and not thier precived enemies - So they kill as many Israeli civilains as possible. They teach "death to Israel" in school.
The palestinians just reveled to the world how they treat non combatents - murdering and kidnapping civilians.
Israel, as it stands now, has every right to flatten the Gaza strip to the ground, and treat thier civilians the same way they treat those poor Israeli civilians....
But Israel won't do that. You know why? becuase Israel is better then that. They won't kill civilians just because they can. And they can. ten times over.
Make your choice after knowing this. -
@magicMirror that's a bit one-sided. It's way more complicated than that.
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@b2plane yeah western media definitely doesn't report it and definitely not all the time. Even CNN never reports it. /s
https://edition.cnn.com/2021/10/... -
@Demolishun Wow, DevRant does not fail to deliver.
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@electrineer It's a whole lot complicated than that, but it's still true. As a former Israeli air force officer, I can tell you that dead civilians are an operational failure, and something that gets thoroughly investigated when happens. Not every death can be prevented because Gaza is extremely populated and because the Hamas intentionally puts civilians at risk. But minimizing civilian casualties is a mission parameter always.
We don't celebrate and give out candies when Palestinian children die. And we certainly don't kidnap 85 year old ladies and teenage girls and then rape them. -
@b2plane
I wonder why they never reported it. Maybe... because it did not happen?
As @NickyBones mentioned. Lets summerize: Israel measure success by how few civilians were hurt. Palestinians, by how many civilians were hurt, including thier own. -
First of all, @b2plane dont suck your own dick by saying people ask for your opinions.
Don't create a pseudo-audience in ur head and start saying "People ask me blah blah....", no they don't. -
@NickyBones Hope you and your friends & family are safe with everything going on at the moment.
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@AlmondSauce I had to defend my PhD work to an internal committee (it's one step before the actual defense). I was informed my classmate died 1 hour before I had to present.
At least he died in battle and not slaughtered in his bed. A small comfort....
My parents are luckily out of the country. Thanks for asking! -
@ostream Being pretty far on the left, I fully support the Palestinian struggle for self determination. I just don't see how raping girls, beheading babies, murdering elderly and stealing credit cards and television brings them any closer to freeing Palestine.
I was hoping they would agree to the numerous peace offers along the years. But they refused because for them is getting 100% of what they want or fighting till death. So I guess now we are in the fighting until death part. Fuck around, find out. -
@ostream It won't end as long as Hamas controls Gaza. Hamas doesn't give two shit about Palestinians, it's main goal is just killing Jews.
There are moderate voices in the West Bank (e.g. Mustafa Barghouti), and I believe we can reach some sort of compromise where Palestine gets autonomy and Israel continues to exist. But this will take a long time. -
@NickyBones Damn, 1 hour before?! I don't think I'd have held up if that were me.
Really hope you can stay safe, and all this madness ends soon. -
@AlmondSauce Every family has been affected by the loss at least once by now, so you just become a bit numb to it.
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@magicMirror "Israel values life"
Right just saw them drone target 4 unarmed teenage boys. And they killed the survivors just so that no one lives to tell the tale. Fuck Israel.
There is endless of "collateral murder" footage and IDF gloating around it you just don't see on MSM.
How tf do you kill >30K civilians greater than 2-3 years in Ukraine war, and then pretend it's due to Hamas. Its planned genocide and people touting otherwise are complicit.
If you watch any of what happens in Israel's parliament they talk about Nakba 2.0 (basically expulsion of palestinian population) -
@jassole You have to be a little bit honest to see how Ukraine war is different. When the craziness started all those would could not take up arms FLED. Germany and Poland filled up with millions of Ukrainian women, children and elderly, leaving behind only those who would be classified as soldiers.
Hamas and other Jihadist organizations proudly admit to using their women, children and elderly as their shield.
If the IDF had the same mindset, there would be at least 30,000 casualties as well on the Israeli side, but the IDF does its job to protect Israelis. Well, except for 7.10 where they were busy securing hillbilly settlers and their pagan celebrations in the West Bank, instead of standing guard on the Gaza border.... -
@jassole Even Hamas doesn't claim 30,000 civilians were killed. They said 30,000 dead in total, and just Hamas admitted to 6,000+ dead militants. There are also the Jihadist Islam and other organizations that lost combatants.
It's fine if you don't like what Israel is doing, but you can criticize it while sticking to facts. -
@NickyBones Ok let's stick to facts. That would mean providing evidences to each of your claims. You made a broad assumptions that is regurgitated by media pundits. I need sources for "Hamas and other Jihadist organizations proudly admit to using their women, children and elderly as their shield." source needed. Otherwise you are beginning to sound like Ben Shapiro who still claim to be a victim of something happened 100 years ago.
Modus Operandi of Israel
=> kill unarmed civilians, woman and children. => Because they are unarmed, claim Hamas is hiding under civilians
https://telegraph.co.uk/world-news/...
https://twitter.com/RamAbdu/status/... -
@jassole
I don't care what you think. Also IDF, Hamas, or anyone else cares about what you think.
In War people will die. Period. Is it justified? No. Nobody should die. But here lies the problem: Both sides need to agree: this has to stop. ASAP.
Israel will Stop, as soon Hamas will release the abducted civilains, and disarm.
Hamas? they will never stop. They will continue trying to kill anyone they can. Even thier peace (Hodnaa) is defined as the "lets prepare for the next round" time.
So - more people will die. Needlessly. Until Hamas is stopped.
tl;dr Hamas is evil. Stop Hamas, save the world. -
@jassole Here you go. Hamas official said that the 500km of tunnels that they built are only for military usage not for civilians to hide. Hamas don't see themselves as responsible for civilians' lives (they think it's the UN's job).
https://youtu.be/Yg4VqiW0dyo?t=14
Then Khaled Mashal said they were aware of the heavy civilian price they would pay for 7.10, and that "sacrifices are necessary"
https://www.arabnews.com/node/2 394966/middle-east
And then you have the facts of them operating from hospitals and schools and endangering civilians. You even have a recent UNRWA report backing this claims. "...They have, for example, entered UNRWA buildings or used them for military purposes. UNRWA has systematically condemned such violations of UN premises. See an example here from 2014 of UNRWA condemning the placement of rockets inside its schools..."
https://unrwa.org/sites/default/... -
@jassole To me, this behavior of endangering civilians purposefully and knowingly, and using resources to protect only militants and not civilians counts as "using civilians as human shields". Maybe you have a different definition.
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@jassole A few days ago IDF killed like 150 militants and captured around 500 in the Shifa HOSPITAL. Hamas and co. didn't even try to claim these were just doctors and nurses. Why are they 1000+ militants in a hospital?
Using a hospital as HQ does not mean hiding behind the weakest parts of your society?
Of course civilians are going to die when you invite an enemy army to fight inside a hospital. -
@jassole Found this as well, it includes a compilation of quotes from prominent Hamas figures regarding civilians life loss. One nice example:
"Hamas despise those defeatist Palestinians that criticize the high number of civilian
casualties. The resistance praises our people…we lead our people to death…I mean, to war"
https://stratcomcoe.org/cuploads/...
Many of these quotes refers to Palestinian civilians willingly putting themselves in the line of fire, which would make them voluntary human shields.
"The citizens will continue defending their pride and houses and will continue to serve as human shields until the enemy will withdraw"
In this case, I'm really not sure how you can blame IDF when civilians are adamant to die for the cause. I mean, you don't have to believe "MSM", just listen to Hamas. -
@jassole So am I cleared of being accused to be Ben Shapiro? I really despise him and that was highly offensive to me.
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@NickyBones no you aren't. You quoted stratcom which is a NATO outlet. And even your own UNWRA source rather seems like its defending a lot of accusations against its own functions by US and Israel that it has to succumb itself. US no longer provided aid to UNWRA btw. That's how powerful the Israel lobby is.
I have mentally checked out tbh. Don't find the time or the energy to people who believe in ridiculous things when there are literally hundreds of video evidence to the contrary. I don't care what you or anyone that keep supporting Israel at this point.
Oh lets just pretend these foreign aid workers who were killed by Israel Airstrikes today following the Shifa Hospital Massacre, also Israel's ban on Al jazeera were also done by Hamas ....
https://twitter.com/SuppressedNws/...
https://twitter.com/YMG12345678/...
Good luck... I'm out of this convo...
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@jassole First you says give me sources, then you just don't like all my sources because they don't fit your narrative. Even though you can find videos online from Arab/Russian TV channels of Hamas officials that basically repeat the same quotes.
Listen, you do you, but there is no need for so many words to say you hate Jews. Just say it out loud, it's liberating and also very trendy right now.
People ask me who do i support israel or palestine, to which i have no clue, i know nothing about both, i dont care about both and i have nothing against both, but whenever i have to choose a side and dont know which one i just look at what america chose and immediately i know they chose the bad guys because america is the biggest terrorist organization to ever exist on this planet. This means israel is also a terrorist country because it inherited their superior terrorist master country
However after seeing what these palestine barbarians do to israelis on https://watchpeopledie.tv/ and seeing them how happy they are whenever they kill someone, they're so joyful and blissful as if they won a billion dollar lottery, i will choose not to in fact stand with palestine, as they are no better than the terroristic israel country, so fuck palestine too
I view both of them as terrorist vs terrorist fight. A cartel vs cartel. I dont have to choose any side to support in this case
There you go. That's how a logical, objective, rational mind creates conclusions and decisions based on facts
rant