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@Shisuki I had rather short experience with them and it was obv. better than fiverr but still worse than upwork, both in competition (your suggestions are also publicly readable, where as upwork doesn't show it - allowing you to be more private and human with clients), interface and functions.
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@C0D4 Exactly, it might be a huge deal in liberia to do lot of copy paste work for 5$, but in a decent developed country, asking for 3$-5$?
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@Bitwise I just got lucky in figuring out what clicks with most and regarding budget: I had contracts that were set to a budget of 300$ in the description, expand to ~5k$ with no problem, it's really just a game about communicating to them that it's not possible for that budget and that you are indeed really valuable with what you can bring to the table for them versus the copy pasta shooters out there. (which often times I get too "you were so excited and the message was actually addressing X or Y")
But not everyone is made for freelancing indeed ofcourse, just don't give up if you have the smallest of interest and maybe give some reads to other people that are freelancing for longer. -
@Bitwise or did you mean that they offer a huge amount of budget and you think you're not a good fit? Often times the interview helps a ton to figure that out, I was actually surprised multiple times that a quick proposal I did at night just to "try", turned out pretty well after actually discussing what they meant.
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@Bitwise I know that feel to be honest, but after just forcing yourself going through those first weeks, it does get better and you start getting the hang of both budget and what the client feels about it, since you can gather a lot of data about how much he is actually going to get from that project in the end (or how much it is going to save him, maybe he is using some kind of expensive paid service currently) and put rough percentages towards the budget for example. (not saying thats the only way, but often a good estimate to what is it worth to you + what is actually worth to the client)
Often times theres ofcourse those kind of projects you just love to work on (but the client doesn't have as much as a set default budget) and then you can slightly lower it to fit both your and their foodtable to not be empty. -
@Bitwise "I was really not impressed at all, the sites are completely saturated from people from third world countries underbidding." - I was trying to avoid at all cost to make this statement both in rants and comments, but it's simply true indeed, thats why upwork reflects and feels actually like you're doing great or trying to improve - when you actually are, because it boosts your public score (and proposal scores), makes it more appealing to clients etc. and building all that really is a nobrainer often, by just doing some small start contracts to have a good "reputation" and profile and then head straight to the moon, trying to score the ones you actually want.
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@Bitwise I wish the web-devrant had an edit function, but I guess you won't be mad about multiple @'s 😉 now regarding you being only a backend guy: you can sort jobs by exactly that, I have written myself a bot with the API they offer to notify me of specific jobs, with specific budget, specific keywords, not containing banned words (like wordpress...) etc. - but you can also create custom searches and just hunt them down yourself while taking a dump for example (just like browsing devrant basically, thats what I did and do), although the app limits the saved searches heavily, so if one actually wants to, he should consider having some similar thing to a bot
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Fuck freelancing websites. Competition is not tough. Its damn near unfair for developers that try to make it into is having no ratings whatsoever regardless of how much experience they have. As an example, Michael Smith might have 20 years of experience as a web developer, he just started going for freelancing, posts his resumee and portfolio into applications. But Dinesh has been going into upwork for a while, dinesh has 4 years of experience but has been in it longer than Michael, Dinesh gets selected, Michael does not. This is just an example of what bothers me, they do not go by real life experience, but by upwork experience.
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@AleCx04 It's still the client deciding and he gets presented mainly with your message, so if "Dinesh" copy pastes something, has a "better" profile - he is not going to get picked if "Michael" actually describes his experience, addresses the job in specific etc.
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@JoshBent sounds like an "in a perfect world" example. I hope its real. From my experience in it, it was not worth it. Which is why I go through other more in person channels to get my contracts. Making a local reputation works better imho.
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@AleCx04 I really sound like some running ad indeed, but it's really just overcoming the first couple weeks I feel, its a really terrible feel of fear and getting rejected, but you really do get the hang of how to be ahead of spammers and better profiles - for example a client decided to pick me over somebody that was actually sligthly better, just because I showed how excited I am and offered help in resolving questions. (also instantly offering a setup guide iirc)
To my disadvantage I have barely any connections, since I tend to get bored maintaining those to keep actual work recommendations flowing, I feel personally having it all online is much easier and gives me more freedom to decide over what I want to do and what I don't, based on just a huge variety of projects. -
@AleCx04 But as you see throughout the thread, we are all different, some like to have contacts to give them intel, others like to just go out and work, but to the actual freelancers or trials - avoid shit like fiverr and freelancer.com at any cost, to not make your first experience, your worst experience. (most often scaring you away from it)
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@JoshBent I'll make sure to ask you about this topic more in the future :) truth be told I've had bad experiences but wish to eventually phase more into freelancing.
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@AleCx04 sadly devrant doesn't have any private messaging (yet) so just @ me wherever you want, be it in some relevant rant or just on one of my rants or even this one. I'll be glad to share anything I know.
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@PrivateGER May I ask what budget you end up with at the end of each "gig".
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@JoshBent 50$ on average.
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@PrivateGER Just like I thought - so now please read again what I wrote regarding the budget differences of those platforms.
I would guess you're still in school and just want some extra pocketmoney for games or activities, right? -
@JoshBent To be honest, yes.
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@PrivateGER Thanks for your honesty, but as said - my point still remains.
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This was kind of mean, especially since you were targeting me.
I'm glad I saw it late, but I was better off not seeing it at all. I only read the first and last paragraph. It was too long and rude so I decided not to read all of it.
Thank you. Thank you so much for even postinf a screenshot and trying your best to prove that my opinions are nothing but a piece of shit. You're right. My opinions are nothing but utter trash. Thank you very much. -
@Michelle You can safely read it, he doesn't target you anymore after the first paragraph.
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@Michelle
Theres by now a dozen of people suggesting fiverr, which all could be equally addressed to this, you might as well read it fully, if you are going to jump conclusions. -
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@Michelle "fiverr is the best place for freelancing" - it's clearly not, so you were the most recent example of people suggesting it.
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@JoshBent
I was stating my opinion, not the truth. Opinions are never wrong. -
@Michelle I really don't understand whats this about, you stated your opinion, I stated mine - listing why suggesting fiverr to people wanting to get into freelance is simply bad.
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@JoshBent
You could have stating your opinion without targetting me.
I NEVER target people because I know they won't like it. I know they won't feel too good about it, so I don't do it. I wish other people did the same to me.
when your code is a mess but everything work out in the end
When you keep getting +1s on a rant you posted a month ago.
Go big or go home.
@Michelle and to everyone else who suggests this fucking trash (fiverr) - I have to heavily disagree - both as a client and freelancer, the platform is just utter garbage and should be avoided if you don't want to get some safe ("I CAN DELIVER 500 CLICKBAIT TITLES" or graphics [which are indeed great]) fixed service (NOT PROGRAMMING - for that theres going to be a suggestion at the bottom of my comment/rant) for 5$.
Freelancer side:
First of all you're put together with A MASSIVE AMOUNT of people that have either a fake picture (right click google => atl. 500 million results from stockphotos, ads, random magazines etc.), fake description (I can do ANYTHING in X - "can you create this very basic thing in the language X as advertised?" - "no"), barely understand english language, deliver utter garbage - forcing you to waste time on support to get your cents back etc. - if you are lucky enough to score somebody, the clients are just the worst fucking kind you will ever encounter and remember back to when you change platform.
Client Side:
I have to fish through millions of people, send out thousands of questions asking if they even understand what I want, half of them reply a copy pasta that I guess is handed out as soon as you sign up and end it with "No sir, thanks sir, bye sir, good night sir, god bless you sir, leave me in your prayers sir". Now you're going to say "but WAIT! there's a request section on fiverr where you can POST your job!!", wrong, its fucking trash - heres a very recent example: I was searching for people that are good in advanced C image manipulation to offload in a project, I supplied as much info as possible (links to examples of results, images, ..), since I am a freelancer myself and know that I will 100% just pass by if the client just lets it rip across his description - I even set a very _very_ good budget. Now you'll think I got tons of offers for C programming, right?.. NO! I fucking got (I fucking kid you not) 67 offers (overnight - after a week it was at like 400 - all the same) for "I will create a mobile app", "I will create an email for you", "I will create the same site as linked" etc. (not a SINGLE ONE for the actual task) can you fucking imagine how fast actual quality clients are going to fuck off from that shithole?
Better suggestion: Upwork, both as client and freelancer - why?
Easy, you like money, a shithole spam free system, verification system of every single piece of shitfaced cunt out there that tries to fake his picture, address, description etc. - you like to build an actual portfolio (with previous clients examples) that matters via both sides ratings that aren't "OUTSTANDING EXPERIENCE!!! *emoji* *emoji* *emoji*" - you like to have fair competition and stand out by doing great work (top rated, verified english knowledge, ..) - you like to get great resources from the site, you like to get hired by top enterprises (dropbox, airbnb, accenture, you name it; https://www.upwork.com/enterprise/) and a lot fucking more
I don't know if it's obvious enough yet but as a client you profit from just being able to post an actual job with description, budget, select from millions of options that the freelancer should match against to be sorted better, one of them being even as detailled as "US Veterans" (not meaning you can't be hired for those jobs, it just means youre slightly lower than others if the client wants to, but I scored already atleast 5 jobs that had "US Veterans" and obv. I am not one) and tons more. (to name just one more, you can even make upwork helpers search people that fit your task and offer them to apply, making your job actually filled with meaningful applicants in literally a fucking hour)
For christ sake stop fucking suggesting this shitty ass pile of shit to people you don't yet hate! Each time I read that somebody suggests fiverr, I want to fucking tear them a second asshole for ruining the freelancer start for somebody.
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